D&D 5E Do you think they will go back to driders being a curse instead of a blessing?

[Minigiant]

I like it as both and Lloth being crazy.

"You are unworthy. Drider time."
"You are the best. Driver time."
"That's a cute dress....Driver time."

Because drow only make sense if their patron deity is a loon.

 

[Hussar]

I hope that they go back to driders being considered a curse.

I always saw the drider transformation as a punishment because it was reflective of the punishment Lolth went through herself. She wasn't always a spider-with-an-elven-head deity; she used to be a beautiful elven goddess before she lost her war against the Seldarine, and she was cursed by Corellon Larethian to be a demon and to have that shape.

Her transformation of "failed" drow into driders is her re-enacting the punishment she suffered, where she now gets to be the tormentor instead of the tormented. I always saw that as being very apropos of her nature.

See this? This is the kind of thing I in no way want to see anywhere near a core product. To me Llolth is a demon and always will be. She became a god through her drow cult.

Everything you just said should never appear in a core book. I mean I don't even know what a Seldarine is.

 

[billd91]

See this? This is the kind of thing I in no way want to see anywhere near a core product. To me Llolth is a demon and always will be. She became a god through her drow cult.

Everything you just said should never appear in a core book. I mean I don't even know what a Seldarine is.

Ultimately, what's the difference whether they list Lolth as a demon or exiled (and transformed) member of the Seldarine in a core product? If you want to use Lolth in a campaign without the Seldarine, you can.

 

[Hussar]

Ultimately, what's the difference whether they list Lolth as a demon or exiled (and transformed) member of the Seldarine in a core product? If you want to use Lolth in a campaign without the Seldarine, you can.

The difference is baggage. If they go with the latter, now they have to explain what a Seldarine is and then tie into that bit of FR lore. And you see the problem played out in this thread.

Everyone who likes the FR lore wants driders to be cursed only. Those of us who don't care are good with both versions.

Forcing setting specific lore limits options. If they go with an FR Llolth then anyone who submits any adventure to Dungeon has to abide by that. The lore overpowers any and all innovation.

 

[MasterTrancer]

Since I've played AD&D mostly in Planescape (yes, I'm a bit rusty...), I have a rather peculiar view on deities, and I ask you to don't mind much my next question, which is...

Is Lolth (or Lloth, whichever form you prefer) a FR-specific goddess (so the curse derived from the war with the Seldarine) or has to be considered a more "generic" one? I know it's difficult to say with such an iconic pillar, but answering it could lead to different outcomes for the OP.

Option 1 - Lolth is not tied to FR:
Driders can be cursed drows in FR, and maybe blessed in other planes; for planehopping parties this can also lead to nasty scenarios ("Look, driders here as well! It's alone, let's hunt him!" "Oh, $**t! There's an entire host of them, with drow in support! How did it happen?"), or something else non-combat related, though with nice potential. It can work, but still needs a more detailed rationale (not for the goddess actions, but for the drows).

Option 2 - Lolth is tied to FR:
Driders shouldn't appear that much outside the Realms...and maybe not even the drows!

...ok, on a second thought, I don't like option 2 much, though my opening question still holds.

 

[ForeverSlayer]

Lolth was also in the Greyhawk pantheon. Driders have always been drow who were cursed. 4th edition is the first edition that presented it as a blessing.

 

[amerigoV]

I always thought the transformation to a drider would be considered repugnant. The drow are after all elves, viewing themselves as beautiful to behold, and to become a bloated spider, hideous to family and loved ones, would be quite a curse. I thought this original lore interesting and did not strain my imagination. It made the drow more 'human' in their sensibilities, though they worship a demon spider, the thought of becoming one is abhorent. Ultimately, there is nothing to say that both lores couldn't be true; that in one drow community, their worship of Lolth is so intense that many aspiring drow volunteer or even compete to become driders. Where in other communities, where no one volunteers, Lolth forces this on the least capable. In both cases, Lolth and her clerics require a certain level of driders, one way or another.

This aligns with my view. Just because you make a deal with the devil does not mean you want to be the devil. I always viewed the Drow as secretly "using" Lolth to gain power. Lolth, of course, knows this. Otherwise, why so many tests of loyalty? She wants to see who plays the best game in her name.

 

[Dausuul]

As I recall, the origin story of driders was that exceptionally skilled and promising drow were put through a test to show their devotion to Lolth. Those who failed got driderized.

How about building off of that a bit? The spider-body of a drider is not just a set of extra legs. Driderization means Lolth takes a young bebilith, merges its body with yours, and gives it total control over you. It drives your actions by inflicting horrific mental torture at any hint of disobedience. It's your live-in political officer, enforcing the loyalty you failed to display in your test.

Driders thus occupy an odd place in drow society. On the one hand, they failed Lolth's test and were punished, making them deserving of scorn. On the other hand, they are now absolutely loyal; the word of a drider might as well come straight from Lolth herself, so everyone pays close attention to them.

Despite the power gain, nobody wants to become a drider, since it means permanent enslavement to a spider-demon.

 

[RangerWickett]

Awesome idea, Dausuul!

 

[an_idol_mind]

I don't really care one way or another what D&D does with the official drider, but I always preferred them as a curse. It adds an interesting self-loathing element to Lolth. She promotes the idea that she is supreme, infallible, and perfect. And yet she curses those seen as unworthy with a visage much like her own.

I think the contradiction adds an interesting layer of complexity to an otherwise one-note demon queen.