Do you use the Hero's Journey (Campbell)

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

I kindly disagree with some of the posters above. I think that there isn't such a thing as a hard "campbell model" that has to be applied this way and not that way, much like I think there isn't a clear cut frontier between mythology and other matters of our lives.

There absolutely is a streamlined outline inspired by Campbell that his most ardent enthusiasts (Campbell is like Ayn Rand that way -- people who discover him tend to get into a near-religious frenzy about his ideas for a few years, IME) insist is the lens through which to view everything.

Plenty of heroic stories don't fit into his theories, and an insistence that his work covers all or most heroic stories is what I personally was referring to in my original post.

 

[RangerWickett]

I'm planning a campaign now that will have a clear hero. And the party is tasked with protecting him on his journey. Of course, they will all grow on the journey as well, and one of them may well end up being the true hero, with the original hero being only someone to point him in the right direction.

Modern fantasy. Ah, the joys of a quest across the modern world.

 

[Odhanan]

There absolutely is a streamlined outline inspired by Campbell that his most ardent enthusiasts

I'm okay with this, if it is the experience you got.

These ardent enthusiasts you know about are wrong, IMO. I think all heroic stories can be studied using Campbell's terms, but there isn't, from my readings of Campbell and not his defenders, no such thing as a hard frame for the hero's journey. Just elements that are used time and time again in various forms and incarnations. This is the issue I was trying to discuss above.

I hope we understand each other better, Whizbang.

 

[Insight]

Mythology is not literature. Mythologies are formed with stories told again and again through generations, impregnated with what cultures and human beings keeping these stories alive hold for true about human nature. Ultimately, just like RPGs on a microscopic scale, mythology is not the fruit of a single individual's imagination and aspirations, but the combination of many voices through the ages.

And gaming isn't literature either. Like I said, literature is fixed with a beginning, middle, and end. There is absolute determinism, because the author completely controls how a story will play out. Games must not be absolutely deterministic, otherwise players' actions have no impact on the story.

I'll agree that Campbell models can be used to setup your adventure (the "Call to Adventure" portion of the Campbell schema). In fact, using this methodology as a 'test' for new characters isn't a bad way to go at all. You definitely need to make sure that, in a campaign intended for heroic characters, the player characters are, in fact, heroic.

 

[Odhanan]

And gaming isn't literature either.

Absolutely.

You definitely need to make sure that, in a campaign intended for heroic characters, the player characters are, in fact, heroic.

I utterly agree. As the hero's journey depends greatly on how the hero reacts to his/her experiences in life and to the quest, whatever it may be, that is his/hers, the whole heroic progression depends heavily, if not completely, on the players impersonating the heroes. They should be aware of the heroic context the DM wants to depict, and aware of the ways to roleplay that "heroic awakening" depicted in Campbell's theories.

 

[rbingham2000]

There was a thread on here a year or so ago called "Heroes: A Campbellian Perspective" that has a very cool article intended for the Star Wars GM Guide, but can be used in any kind of setting.

Since I don't have access to the search function, someone who does might want to seek out that thread and link to it here.

And as far as heroes among groups are concerned, I refer you to the Lord of the Rings movies, especially Return of the King. Practically everyone shines in this movie, particularly Sam, who was responsible for keeping Frodo from losing it throughout the saga, and who in this movie goes mano-a-mano with the big friggin' spider Shelob herself and storms Minas Morgul in order to rescue Frodo from the orcs, becoming a hero in his own right.

 

[Enkhidu]

There was a thread on here a year or so ago called "Heroes: A Campbellian Perspective" that has a very cool article intended for the Star Wars GM Guide, but can be used in any kind of setting.

Since I don't have access to the search function, someone who does might want to seek out that thread and link to it here.

And as far as heroes among groups are concerned, I refer you to the Lord of the Rings movies, especially Return of the King. Practically everyone shines in this movie, particularly Sam, who was responsible for keeping Frodo from losing it throughout the saga, and who in this movie goes mano-a-mano with the big friggin' spider Shelob herself and storms Minas Morgul in order to rescue Frodo from the orcs, becoming a hero in his own right.

This is telling, because LotR has multiple characters going through their own Hero's Journeys at the same time. You've got Sam, who's journey mirrors Frodo (but never succumbs to the hero's fatal flaw). And you've got Aragorn, who fits the mold just as much as anyone.

The best campaigns I have ever been in had side by side Hero's Journeys.

 

[tetsujin28]

A short answer: No, because Campbell was a reductionist crackpot.

Another answer: No, because Campbell was a reductionist crackpot who, like Eliade (another reductionist crackpot), modified things to his own whims in order to make them fit his universal schema.

 

[MonsterMash]

a. Not with multi-player campaigns
b. I don't have a clear story arc like that to my campaigns - there is not ever a total end even if one goal has been acheived.

 

[barsoomcore]

As DM, it doesn't seem to me that I can "force" my players to take their characters through the "Hero's Journey". Many players want characters who kick butt from the get-go and just get better and better at kicking butt.

If a player wants to do that with their character, great, I'll do what I can to facilitate it. But there doesn't seem to be much I can do about making them develop their character in this fashion if they don't want to.