Do you want PDFs?

[dogoftheunderworld]

I only want PDFs of books which I can't get in hardcopy, which isn't really an option up there.

-O

This, mostly; but also material that I don't want/need in hardcopy format. First, I love that the .pdf market has opened new doors for 3rd party publishers, free stuff (samples and full products), extra portable copy of my library, etc. It is just an excellent choice for fast, simple distribution. Also, I liked having the option to pick up Out Of Print books from publishers (including WoTC). Much better option than wandering the secondary market for a wanted module, source book, magazine.

I've purchased many .pdfs for both of the above reasons. When I'm gaming, I mostly use the hardcopy versions (original printing or printed .pdf), but having the .pdf option is excellent for prep & for amassing a huge library of resources that don't need to collect dust.

I'll leave the cost analysis to the MBAs, but I know I've purchased a LOT more gaming material because of .pdfs than I ever would have if just printed materials were available. (And I've gone on to purchase many printed books because I liked the .pdf sample/copy/publisher so much.)

 

[Voadam]

I'm operating on a (possibly flawed!) assumption that WotC operates differently from smaller publishers given its scale. We know that they have a much larger staff than any 3pp, including brand management, marketing, customer service, etc. We know that they actually provide benefits to their employees, too, and presumably the employees are better-paid than at many places. Warehousing and printing - all the physical costs - also get cheaper on a per-unit basis as the volumes get larger, both because they are in a better position to negotiate, and the basic economic facts of high-volume production.

This doesn't leave me with any actual numbers, only the fact that WotC's scale likely means that a greater percentage of its costs are taken up on the office side of things rather than the printing side of things.

Again, it's a guess. So I'm not going to claim absolute truth here.

-O

We also know that 0% of their development costs are currently assigned to pdf prices. They are 100% print publication only with 0 pdf sales so all those costs are considered in making the print products and 0% are assumed in pdfs.

So for say the Eberron Player's Guide if 1/3 is print, distribution, and middleman expenses and 2/3 are product development costs then those development costs are also built 100% into the MSRP of the print run.

So what happens if they decide now if they want to sell pdfs of the EPG? They have minor new costs to turn the existing paid for book into a pdf and then new middle man percentage per sale costs for the rpgnow cut of the pdf profits. They incur no new non-format development costs for this new secondary derivative product. They are not going to pay the authors and editors and artists for the same work twice.

Say they want to sell a pdf of the 1e DMG. They don't have to spend any money for Gygax to write it or anybody to edit it, etc. as all that work is already done and paid for. They just have to either use the pdf they already made or make a new pdf of the existing written work and get it to the middleman distributor. New development costs that are small compared to originally creating the work.

While WotC will have costs to do this pdf development work (including paying for the benefits of the employees who do this) it will still be a tiny fraction of the cost they normally incur to develop a book.

So what relationship should these pdfs have to the print MSRP?

Should they be based on a relationship to the new development costs?

Rationally WotC should simply price them to maximize its profits in the market environment.

 

[Treebore]

WOTC has their own servers already. Probably with plenty of capacity to sell their own PDF's directly.

So I suspect they will use them, if they ever do sell PDF's again. I see their moves as monopolized control of their products, so I do not think they will ever sell PDF's like they did before. It will be a subscription service so that they never sell you "ownership" again.

Which may not actually be bad as long as they give explicit permission to DL and print out for use in your own games and don't require you to destroy such things if you ever cease your subscription.

What is the current terms of "usage" for the DDI?

 

[Voadam]

I wasn't talking about only WotC. The recent discussion has been about what general percentage of the price of a hardcover book is different than pdf's. Quite obviously, it's situational and varies from publisher to publisher, and book to book. However, according to those in the industry, it seems the price to produce a pdf is still substantially more than 50%. I think I'll believe the experts on this rather than my, or random people on the internets, perceptions and opinions.

And Royalties aren't only for licensed products, but also for the authors of works. I have no idea whether WotC pays their authors royalties or not. That would probably depend on their standard practices and individual contracts with writers and game developers. And I'm sure none of us will ever know unless you can get WotC, or anyone who has written for them, to reveal the nature of their contracts and payments.

Its true that its a possibility that WotC could pay their salaried writers and freelance authors in royalties.

I doubt it, but I haven't worked for them. I only did a little freelance work for White Wolf and Atlas Games and Steve Jackson Games and some others which was contractually payment per word or article, etc.

I remember that WotC's offered payments for Dragon and Dungeon were not royalties but was payment per word, but that does not speak directly to their contracts with staff writers and freelancers for RPG books.

 

[Longtooth Studios]

As a graphic designer, I enjoy having access to anything in digital form. I can take the text and/or images and extract them to be manipulated for my games. I am probably not the norm, but I voted PDF for all editions. Its just that usefull to me.

 

[jaerdaph]

Even companies like Green Ronin with their own online stores still sell on RPGNow (and through other PDF distributors). Why? Because they can reach a larger purchasing audience. More importantly, there are also a lot of potential customers out there who don't want to have separate accounts in multiple stores. Some folks don't want to use PayPal but also don't want to give out their credit card info to everyone and their brother.

So just because setting up your own server and online store may be cheaper (and I'm still not conviced that it is), it isn't necessarily a good idea. Your mileage may vary if you are WotC or Paizo.

 

[Vail Marston]

I voted "don't care." I run 4E and decided that I prefer my rules in PDF format. When WotC dropped that format, I stopped buying new rule books, visiting their website, reading preview threads on EN World, etc.

Now, I find my campaign is getting along fine without the influx of new rules. I suppose if WotC started publishing PDFs again, I might buy something, but mostly I've lost interest in what they do.

 

[lutecius]

I don't play 4e but I'd buy cheap, drm-free pdfs of any edition for inspiration.

I'm operating on a (possibly flawed!) assumption that WotC operates differently from smaller publishers given its scale. We know that they have a much larger staff than any 3pp, including brand management, marketing, customer service, etc. We know that they actually provide benefits to their employees, too, and presumably the employees are better-paid than at many places. Warehousing and printing - all the physical costs - also get cheaper on a per-unit basis as the volumes get larger, both because they are in a better position to negotiate, and the basic economic facts of high-volume production.

This doesn't leave me with any actual numbers, only the fact that WotC's scale likely means that a greater percentage of its costs are taken up on the office side of things rather than the printing side of things.

I don't know about that. In-house costs don't rise much with larger print runs. Printing and warehousing costs do, even with better deals. So they must represent a significant part of the total cost, even in high-volume production.

 

[Obryn]

I don't know about that. In-house costs don't rise much with larger print runs. Printing and warehousing costs do, even with better deals. So they must represent a significant part of the total cost, even in high-volume production.

I have no doubt that printing and warehousing costs increase. I think WotC is getting a lower per-unit price than a smaller publisher.

As for business costs... You don't think WotC has a significantly higher payroll, facility expense, marketing budget, generally higher salaries, and more comprehensive benefits?

....Okay?

-O

 

[lutecius]

I have no doubt that printing and warehousing costs increase. I think WotC is getting a lower per-unit price than a smaller publisher.

As for business costs... You don't think WotC has a significantly higher payroll, facility expense, marketing budget, generally higher salaries, and more comprehensive benefits?

Of course I do, but those are supposedly cost-effective investments and again, they don't increase as you print more copies. So the larger the print run, the less these costs represent, per unit, compared to printing and storage.