The only time this concerns me is when the characters are sleeping. Characters wearing heavier armors are already disadvantaged by their movement rates. I don't want to necessarily worry about whose wearing what and it tends to turn the players' character sheets into an accountant's ledger as they erase and mark down new ACs.
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Do your characters wear their armor all day long?
- Thread starter kenjib
- Start date
Well, I play with the movement and encumbrance rules since, as GoldenEagle pointed out, they're an important part of the tradeoff you make in deciding what kind of armor to wear. (I'm one of these people who prefers an unarmored swashbuckler to a plate-clad knight - although knights are cool too; Malory's Morte is wildly fabutastic.)
As for the first question, if you're lounging in the shade or it's wintertime, you can probably wear any type of armor for however long while standing guard (or just still in general
). If it's hot, however, standing and walking about can both be very fatiguing - it sort of is a furnace padded on the inside, after all
From what I've seen, the average SCA fighter, despite usually wearing lighter suits than historical ones, is really exhausted after 20 minutes' combat, although of course that's a somewhat more active exercise than walking.
Contrary to what others have said and from second-hand experience (haven't tried it, but seen sleepers), you CAN sleep in full plate mail, and probably just about any type of armor. Your ability to do this, of course, varies depending on how tired you are, and how spoiled with soft pillows, but anyone capable of sleeping on the ground with nothing inbetween but clothes should be just dandy - certainly a trained warrior should be capable of it without difficulty.
And yes, heavier armors often have padding or chain underneath - frequently both; chainmail is very chafing without padding underneath, whether there's another layer of armor on top or no. (Also, the links tend to rust, which can really ruin your clothes.) Shirts of chain, in my experience, are practically always worn with padding.
Finally, I'd like to point out that IMC, if you waltz around in armor indoors, people will give you very strange looks, and they'll probably feel insulted - after all, you are behaving as if you expect to be attacked at any moment.
/Feliath - has SCA friends
As for the first question, if you're lounging in the shade or it's wintertime, you can probably wear any type of armor for however long while standing guard (or just still in general
). If it's hot, however, standing and walking about can both be very fatiguing - it sort of is a furnace padded on the inside, after all From what I've seen, the average SCA fighter, despite usually wearing lighter suits than historical ones, is really exhausted after 20 minutes' combat, although of course that's a somewhat more active exercise than walking.
Contrary to what others have said and from second-hand experience (haven't tried it, but seen sleepers), you CAN sleep in full plate mail, and probably just about any type of armor. Your ability to do this, of course, varies depending on how tired you are, and how spoiled with soft pillows, but anyone capable of sleeping on the ground with nothing inbetween but clothes should be just dandy - certainly a trained warrior should be capable of it without difficulty.
And yes, heavier armors often have padding or chain underneath - frequently both; chainmail is very chafing without padding underneath, whether there's another layer of armor on top or no. (Also, the links tend to rust, which can really ruin your clothes.) Shirts of chain, in my experience, are practically always worn with padding.
Finally, I'd like to point out that IMC, if you waltz around in armor indoors, people will give you very strange looks, and they'll probably feel insulted - after all, you are behaving as if you expect to be attacked at any moment.
/Feliath - has SCA friends
Zaruthustran
The tingling means it’s working!
I suggest going out and wearing armor all day, and see how you like it. That's a serious suggestion; there are pleny of Live Action Roleplaying and Medieval Recreation groups out there that will lend you armor for a day of play. Or, go to a Ren Faire and ask the armored guys if they're comfy.
Here's my experience: armor is a bitch. It's hot. It's heavy. It's uncomfortable. It can get tiring. But all that tiredness vanishes when you're jumped on the way to the food tent/bathroom/adventure site.
You can wear all armor as long as you want, if you're willing to put up with a little discomfort. Any reasonably fit, reasonably strong person (Attributes of 10) can wear full plate all day. You won't be comfortable, but you *can* do it. At the end of the day, you'll be sore and tired. But hey, no one said being an adventurer is easy.
So, you *can* wear it all day, but unless you're a real tough guy you'll probably want to slim down a bit. If you're walking through safe country, you'll definitely remove your helmet, gauntlets, and shield and put these items on your horse/wagon. If you're riding, you'll probably just remove your helmet (helmets are a pain in the neck--literally). If you're hiking across the wilderness in safe country, a comfort-minded person will do without anything heavier than leather. For a trip to the market, you can be comfy in a chain shirt--full chain mail is *heavy* and really hard on the shoulders, so you'd want to avoid that.
Hey, look at that! "Light" armors are comfy and unrestrictive, and medium and heavy armors are a pain. How convenient.
Anyway, the thing is that adventurers are rarely in safe areas. Thus, they'd be reluctant to remove armor if there's an ever-present danger of attack. So they wouldn't. They'd just grit their teeth and bear it. Also note that most armor-wearing characters are unusually strong and hardy. They're known for Fortitude. They're professional soldiers who have devoted their entire lives to the fighting arts. Give these characters a break and let them assume that they've learned to deal with the realities of their jobs.
I follow and recommend the "this detail doesn't matter until it does" rule. This rule is most often used with crap like arrows, food, and other regular expendables. As in, don't bother marking off each individual mundane arrow (for crying out loud). It's not worth the bother, unless it's the last fight, or he's defending something, or whatever. Same goes for armor. Don't use Fortitude saves or keep track of how uncomfortable the character is unless you have to, unless it adds to the fun. Your chase scene is a perfect example of this. For that chase, you should keep track of that stuff and challenge the player to contemplate either ditching his heavy armor for the increase in speed or keeping it on and making a stand. Fun!
Heavy armors have a gambeson, which sometimes incorporates chain (usually around the arm pits, neck, waist, hips). But plate is *not* simply metal sheets layered over full chain mail. So, if you want a stat, rule that the gambeson worn under plate can be used as either padded armor or leather (depending on how much chain mail it uses).
Yes. That's how it was done Back In The Day. But it's annoying, and really penalizes your fighters. Don't make them do this unless its absolutely necessary/fun.
Again: wear some armor. See how it feels. Then realize that even though it's uncomfortable, well, it's more comfortable than an arrow in the chest. Professional soldiers are trained, willing, and able to put up with discomfort if it means they'll have a better chance at survival.
-z
PS: I've slept in full plate. Well, full plate without a helmet. It wasn't as comfortable as flannel pajamas (shocking!), but I was able to do it. When you're tired enough, you can sleep pretty much anywhere.
Here's my experience: armor is a bitch. It's hot. It's heavy. It's uncomfortable. It can get tiring. But all that tiredness vanishes when you're jumped on the way to the food tent/bathroom/adventure site.
kenjib said:
You can wear all armor as long as you want, if you're willing to put up with a little discomfort. Any reasonably fit, reasonably strong person (Attributes of 10) can wear full plate all day. You won't be comfortable, but you *can* do it. At the end of the day, you'll be sore and tired. But hey, no one said being an adventurer is easy.
So, you *can* wear it all day, but unless you're a real tough guy you'll probably want to slim down a bit. If you're walking through safe country, you'll definitely remove your helmet, gauntlets, and shield and put these items on your horse/wagon. If you're riding, you'll probably just remove your helmet (helmets are a pain in the neck--literally). If you're hiking across the wilderness in safe country, a comfort-minded person will do without anything heavier than leather. For a trip to the market, you can be comfy in a chain shirt--full chain mail is *heavy* and really hard on the shoulders, so you'd want to avoid that.
Hey, look at that! "Light" armors are comfy and unrestrictive, and medium and heavy armors are a pain. How convenient.
Anyway, the thing is that adventurers are rarely in safe areas. Thus, they'd be reluctant to remove armor if there's an ever-present danger of attack. So they wouldn't. They'd just grit their teeth and bear it. Also note that most armor-wearing characters are unusually strong and hardy. They're known for Fortitude. They're professional soldiers who have devoted their entire lives to the fighting arts. Give these characters a break and let them assume that they've learned to deal with the realities of their jobs.
I follow and recommend the "this detail doesn't matter until it does" rule. This rule is most often used with crap like arrows, food, and other regular expendables. As in, don't bother marking off each individual mundane arrow (for crying out loud). It's not worth the bother, unless it's the last fight, or he's defending something, or whatever. Same goes for armor. Don't use Fortitude saves or keep track of how uncomfortable the character is unless you have to, unless it adds to the fun. Your chase scene is a perfect example of this. For that chase, you should keep track of that stuff and challenge the player to contemplate either ditching his heavy armor for the increase in speed or keeping it on and making a stand. Fun!
Heavy armors have a gambeson, which sometimes incorporates chain (usually around the arm pits, neck, waist, hips). But plate is *not* simply metal sheets layered over full chain mail. So, if you want a stat, rule that the gambeson worn under plate can be used as either padded armor or leather (depending on how much chain mail it uses).
Yes. That's how it was done Back In The Day. But it's annoying, and really penalizes your fighters. Don't make them do this unless its absolutely necessary/fun.
Again: wear some armor. See how it feels. Then realize that even though it's uncomfortable, well, it's more comfortable than an arrow in the chest. Professional soldiers are trained, willing, and able to put up with discomfort if it means they'll have a better chance at survival.
-z
PS: I've slept in full plate. Well, full plate without a helmet. It wasn't as comfortable as flannel pajamas (shocking!), but I was able to do it. When you're tired enough, you can sleep pretty much anywhere.
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Vocenoctum
First Post
Of my characters;
I have a barbarian Cleric who wears full plate, with spikes. When he's awake, he's wearing it. He doesn't bathe often either, since he doesn't care. He takes better care of his armor's hygiene than his own He doesn't rely on the armor as such though, and doesn't worry about sleeping in it. He is a gnome, so my max run is now 45. If the combat starts far away, it could be over before I get there. (It's happened twice)
My paladin had chainmail, now exchanged for a MW Breastplate. He wears it constantly, since Evil is Everywhere!
The armor check penalty is low enough he can sleep in it as well.
I think unless the environment (ala desert or arctic) is an important obstacle with specific effects on the group, it's best to ignore wearing armor all day.
I have a barbarian Cleric who wears full plate, with spikes. When he's awake, he's wearing it. He doesn't bathe often either, since he doesn't care. He takes better care of his armor's hygiene than his own
He doesn't rely on the armor as such though, and doesn't worry about sleeping in it. He is a gnome, so my max run is now 45. If the combat starts far away, it could be over before I get there. (It's happened twice)My paladin had chainmail, now exchanged for a MW Breastplate. He wears it constantly, since Evil is Everywhere!
The armor check penalty is low enough he can sleep in it as well.
I think unless the environment (ala desert or arctic) is an important obstacle with specific effects on the group, it's best to ignore wearing armor all day.
Zaruthustran
The tingling means it’s working!
Here's another thought. Don't bother with penalties for all-day armor wear unless you also bother with keeping track of spell components (not just costly components), spell books (and which spells are in which books, and how much those books weigh, and where they're kept, and how they're protected from rain and muc), arrows, food, and other annoyances.
In other words: don't bother.
-z
In other words: don't bother.
-z
seasong
First Post
Depends a great deal on the campaign.
In a very low magic, military/political campaign I ran a while back, the characters were teenage draftees in a war far from their homeland. They were given padded armor w/ leather vests and marched hither and yon to engage the enemy (and they *liked it*, by gum). The characters learned to sleep in armor & raincloaks, because, quite frankly, their survival was at stake.
In a political intrigue campaign I ran even longer ago, only a few of the characters were military at all, and although they travelled, it was usually by carriage or wagon. Most of the characters would not have dreamed of sleeping in their armor (or even wearing it most of the time); the ones who would dream of such things, only did so when they expected trouble.
I think that if I ran a Forgotten Realms campaign, and the FR wilderness being what it is, I'd allow that the PCs were expecting trouble pretty much 24/7.
In a very low magic, military/political campaign I ran a while back, the characters were teenage draftees in a war far from their homeland. They were given padded armor w/ leather vests and marched hither and yon to engage the enemy (and they *liked it*, by gum). The characters learned to sleep in armor & raincloaks, because, quite frankly, their survival was at stake.
In a political intrigue campaign I ran even longer ago, only a few of the characters were military at all, and although they travelled, it was usually by carriage or wagon. Most of the characters would not have dreamed of sleeping in their armor (or even wearing it most of the time); the ones who would dream of such things, only did so when they expected trouble.
I think that if I ran a Forgotten Realms campaign, and the FR wilderness being what it is, I'd allow that the PCs were expecting trouble pretty much 24/7.
I don't let folks sleep in armor, and I discourage them wearing it when "in town" unless it would be acceptable for some reason. If your fighter is walking around in breastplate, sword, and shield, this would be like walking around with an M-16 and a flak vest in real life. There are some time this is acceptable, but don't expect to get seated at Appleby's.
Valmur_Dwur
First Post
My character and my players pc's don't! It depends on if they arte in a town or other "safe" area. If they are the watch will question them as to the reasons for having it on. If they just got to town they will be shown the nearest inn unless the party gets a special "permit" to be in town armored. This of course costs but just as long as they don't "lose" the permit they're ok. Otherwise they can be expelled from town under escort or cause even more problems for the pc if they don't You want the pcs to remove their armor whenever possible not because they can't wear it but for RP'ing reasons. Now you have 3 options when attacking at night for instance. Do it just before the next shift change? Do it after the shift change? Or for a party out in the wilderness attack while one is putting his armor on and the other is taking hers off? Just my 2 commons
You want the pcs to remove their armor whenever possible not because they can't wear it but for RP'ing reasons. Now you have 3 options when attacking at night for instance. Do it just before the next shift change? Do it after the shift change? Or for a party out in the wilderness attack while one is putting his armor on and the other is taking hers off? Just my 2 commons
Zappo
Explorer
I don't care too much. Yeah, they'll be without armor if they get ambushed during the night. They'll also be without armor at the Grand Duchess' ball. Otherwise, they wear armor less or more constantly.
Sometimes this causes somewhat weird situations - like when they are attacked in the safety of their houses and yet found ready to fight - but the alternative (having to constantly get told "I don the armor", "I remove the armor", and the arguing when they forget to tell) is worse.
Sometimes this causes somewhat weird situations - like when they are attacked in the safety of their houses and yet found ready to fight - but the alternative (having to constantly get told "I don the armor", "I remove the armor", and the arguing when they forget to tell) is worse.
Elder-Basilisk
First Post
For me it depends on the character.
The elf cleric I played in RttToEE wasn't too particular about her armor--she wore her chain shirt when she went out to fight evil but not generally to meditate (or whatever elves do instead of sleeping). That was until her guide turned around and death attacked her in the middle of the night. She survived but until she killed the assassin she rarely took her armor off.
My main Living Greyhawk character, a fighter/wizard only takes his mithril chain shirt off to bathe (and since he knows presdigitation, he doesn't need to do that often). He's realized that he's never safe no matter where he is. While camped, in an inn, retiring after standing watch on the walls of a castle, even in a market or a fair, there seem to be villains and demons waiting to do evil. By 8th level, he's earned his paranoia.
My secondary Living Greyhawk character, OTOH, is a good deal more trusting. He doesn't sleep in his armor. He'd probably stick to his leather armor for a festival or faire (He doesn't know how they inevitably turn out yet).
In general, I think that higher level characters will probably have learned that it's not paranoia because the NPCs really are out to get you and probably always make sure that they have their defenses at hand. Perhaps even moreso for good PCs who would be concerned that their enemies might take advantage of apparent unpreparedness and attack them. If they went unprepared to a market, festival, or anything similar, that would most likely result in a lot of injury and death among the bystanders as well as risk to them.
The elf cleric I played in RttToEE wasn't too particular about her armor--she wore her chain shirt when she went out to fight evil but not generally to meditate (or whatever elves do instead of sleeping). That was until her guide turned around and death attacked her in the middle of the night. She survived but until she killed the assassin she rarely took her armor off.
My main Living Greyhawk character, a fighter/wizard only takes his mithril chain shirt off to bathe (and since he knows presdigitation, he doesn't need to do that often). He's realized that he's never safe no matter where he is. While camped, in an inn, retiring after standing watch on the walls of a castle, even in a market or a fair, there seem to be villains and demons waiting to do evil. By 8th level, he's earned his paranoia.
My secondary Living Greyhawk character, OTOH, is a good deal more trusting. He doesn't sleep in his armor. He'd probably stick to his leather armor for a festival or faire (He doesn't know how they inevitably turn out yet).
In general, I think that higher level characters will probably have learned that it's not paranoia because the NPCs really are out to get you and probably always make sure that they have their defenses at hand. Perhaps even moreso for good PCs who would be concerned that their enemies might take advantage of apparent unpreparedness and attack them. If they went unprepared to a market, festival, or anything similar, that would most likely result in a lot of injury and death among the bystanders as well as risk to them.
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