Doctor Who s8e12: Death in Heaven [spoilers]

[Raunalyn]

I really liked Missy...I do hope they bring her back. Michelle Gomez really looked like she was enjoying herself.

 

[trappedslider]

I really liked Missy...I do hope they bring her back. Michelle Gomez really looked like she was enjoying herself.

Ham and Cheese soo much..I'm surprised some of those headstones didn't have bite marks lol

 

[Jester David]

My wife says Danny shot her to save the Doctor getting his hands dirty. I'll have to rewatch.

Like [MENTION=40176]MarkB[/MENTION] I assumed it was the Cyberman assumed to be the Brigadier keeping the Doctor's hands clean.
But the FX did look more like a teleport. They could have just reused the SFX (those are pricey) or deliberately used that one to allow room to bring back the Master.

But, while neat, the Brigadier semi-returning felt deux ex machnica. (Heh. A deus ex machina cyberman. Heh.) It was kinda foreshadowed and it makes total sense but it's so abrupt. Still, any excuse to namedrop Lethbridge-Stewart is fine by me.


I liked the mutual lying at the end. Such a different way for companions departing.

Despite being extra long it felt like there were some bits missing.
I felt there was a scene missing between the graveyard and Clara's room where the Doctor explains that someone could come back. Likely cut for time/pacing but awkward from a story purpose. But I liked Danny sacrificing his life to return the boy he killed. That was such a nice bit of his overall character arc.
Perhaps that's also where the Doctor explained how Danny could retain his emotion. Unless the whole "promise" thing was meant to imply cybermen could always do it. Which feels like a cop out as it just means every other cyberman in the show just didn't love enough.

I loved the Doctor being President of Earth and mocking the Master for how easy it was.

The name of the episode is a fun line. Death in Heaven. Referencing both the afterlife and the fact there's deadly cyber-pollen in the sky.

I liked the UNIT scientist (whose name I had to Google: it's Osgood). The scene with her and the Master was... hard to watch.

I'm okay with the trailer fake-outs. Too often they spoil things (*cough* cybermen *cough*) so I liked this one. Especially since it was revealed so early. And I enjoyed Coleman getting top billing and her eyes being in the opening rather than Capaldi's.


This season was really about the Doctor discovering who he was. We didn't just get a single episode regeneration but a full season of discovery. The tension between the Doctor and the military, culminating with him being ruler of earth and leader of a cyber army. I think we've set up Capaldi for a good place next season.

I'm hoping for a couple companions again. I prefer an ensemble in the TARDIS and like the Doctor, male companion, female companion dynamic of the early Doctors.

 

[Ryujin]

I enjoyed this episode more than I have most of the others, this season. The 'soldier's promise' was a particularly nice point, especially coming up on Remembrance Day. The PE teacher got to go out in style.

I agree that the SFX used looked more like a teleport that disintegration, though The Doctor was also meant to think that Missy was gone. He immediately started looking for who actually fired the 'shot.'

 

[Morrus]

I think I missed something somewhere, despite two watchings now. Still it's an excuse for a third!

Why was Danny able to override his Cyberman programming? And why was the Brigadier able to, also? Is the implication that love overrides the programming? In that case, presumably the majority of people love somebody - why don't all the Cybermen overcome their programming? Or was the love of those two greater than that of everyone else?

Or am I just missing a plot point?

If you have a TARDIS and your have a plane, is your optimal mobile headquarters the plane? Why wasn't his first order "Right, everyone into the TARDIS!"

Missy still had her disintegrator on her after being captured? Did they not check her for weapons? The Doctor was OK with her being left alone with a couple of guards despite knowing she's the friggin' Master?

Hmmm. More I think about it, the more questions I have. That's not good. On the plus side I LOVED Michelle Gomez. I really hope she's still around. I thought she was hilarious in Green Wing, and she's wonderful in Doctor Who.

 

[Umbran]

Danny able to give orders to all the Cybermen - rubbish.

"PE! Catch!" The Doctor threw the bracelet to Danny. (which you got already. Nevermind!)

Doctor executing Master - I don't think he did. Different SFX.

It was the Brigadier, or so we are led to think.

That finding Gallifrey thing? So she was lying after all?

Yep. Thus setting us up for the Gift of the Magi at the end - each giving up something so the other can be happy.

Which, of course, brings in Nick Frost - terribly appropriate for the Gift of the Magi ending. I love that they got a guy named Frost for that role

 

[Umbran]

Why was Danny able to override his Cyberman programming? And why was the Brigadier able to, also?

"Because love, it's not an emotion. Love is a promise..."

Which is a call-out to John Lennon, “Love is a promise, love is a souvenir, once given never forgotten, never let it disappear.”

In that case, presumably the majority of people love somebody - why don't all the Cybermen overcome their programming?

In the immediate case - because the majority of the dead have been dead for decades, centuries,or millennia. The people they love are themselves dead.

In general... um, because they don't care about the plot hole this presents

Or, for the No Prize... because for it to kick in, the cyberman must 1) have incredible will (Danny, the Brigadier) and 2) be in close proximity to someone they loved before being made a cyberman. There is precedent for resisting Cyberman-assimilation in Matt Smith's episode "Nightmare in Silver".

Or, for another No-Prize: The process by which Missy made cyberman is different than other cybermen we've seen, so the statement doesn't generally hold at all.

If you have a TARDIS and your have a plane, is your optimal mobile headquarters the plane? Why wasn't his first order "Right, everyone into the TARDIS!"

1) Do you take the Master into a TARDIS? Really?

2) UNIT Protocols

3) As previously discussed (though, we disagree on the point) the TARDIS' ability to go exactly where the Doctor wants is unreliable. If he slips even hours ahead, to after the rain falls, he cannot go back and make it not fall without creating paradox.

Missy still had her disintegrator on her after being captured?

The tech with the glasses and bow tie had it on the desk, and was working on it. Missy gets free, comes up to the desk, and while the tech is distracted, Missy picks it up.

The Doctor was OK with her being left alone with a couple of guards despite knowing she's the friggin' Master?

Well, what else does he do? Keep watch personally, and thus get nothing else done? Will a *million* guards be sufficient? It is the Master, after all...

 

[MarkB]

I think I missed something somewhere, despite two watchings now. Still it's an excuse for a third!

Why was Danny able to override his Cyberman programming? And why was the Brigadier able to, also? Is the implication that love overrides the programming? In that case, presumably the majority of people love somebody - why don't all the Cybermen overcome their programming? Or was the love of those two greater than that of everyone else?

Or am I just missing a plot point?

First, we really don't know how many cybermen broke their control. We only had that one graveyard-ful to go on.

Danny hadn't deleted his emotions yet, and was probably one of the few who hadn't, being only recently deceased, and that gave him a significant edge.

And he was also being confronted by the object of his devotion right at the moment his emotions were overridden - that probably made a huge difference.

If you have a TARDIS and your have a plane, is your optimal mobile headquarters the plane? Why wasn't his first order "Right, everyone into the TARDIS!"

The plane is equipped to be the mobile command centre for the entire world, and its staff are familiar with its layout. Not so the TARDIS.

Missy still had her disintegrator on her after being captured? Did they not check her for weapons? The Doctor was OK with her being left alone with a couple of guards despite knowing she's the friggin' Master?

The question about the disruptor has been answered, but the more pertinent one would be why she still had the bracelet on. Anything she's carrying could be alien tech - she should've been stripped and changed into prisoner coveralls while she was still drugged.

And yeah, the security was terribly lax - the Doctor's seen the Master escape from more sophisticated restraints than just handcuffs. He also knows the Master is adept at suborning his captors - she should've been solidly manacled and gagged. Still, they were awfully rushed.

 

[Jester David]

Missy still had her disintegrator on her after being captured? Did they not check her for weapons? The Doctor was OK with her being left alone with a couple of guards despite knowing she's the friggin' Master?

The tech with the glasses and bow tie had it on the desk, and was working on it. Missy gets free, comes up to the desk, and while the tech is distracted, Missy picks it up.

The part that stood out in that scene is how the guards do NOTHING when the person right in front of them says she's going to kill the techie and/or react when they see the handcuffs. Or even notice the Master planting the handcuffs.
And the techie doesn't immediately shout "at arms!" when the threat and/or security breach is noticed.

To say nothing on them standing their while the Master grabbed techie and then disintegrated them.

Worst. Guards. Ever.

That scene would have been so much better had the guards not been present. It would have seemed odd, but less odd than them just being completely asleep at their post.

 

[Morrus]

First, we really don't know how many cybermen broke their control. We only had that one graveyard-ful to go on.

Danny hadn't deleted his emotions yet, and was probably one of the few who hadn't, being only recently deceased, and that gave him a significant edge.

No, his emotions had been deleted. Clara did it at his request.

The plane is equipped to be the mobile command centre for the entire world, and its staff are familiar with its layout. Not so the TARDIS.

The TARDIS is equipped to do anything. What on earth could that plane possibly do that the TARDIS couldn't? Plus it can't be attacked by Cybermen.