Does a familiar have darkvision and/or Augmented Animal Type?

[strongbow]

In reading through the 3.5 PH, it is not clear to me what the
intention is regarding familiars. Beyond HP, HD, BAB, feats and
skills, a familiar appears to be a magical beast. I propose that
becoming a familiar is like gaining a special template that also
makes you a magical beast. (Read the section on adding templates in
the MM for clarification). A monster that acquires a template has
the Traits of the new type, but the features of the old type & also
gains the augmented (old type) unless the template says otherwise.
With this knowledge I have two questions:

1) Is a familiar's type Magical Beast (Augmented Animal)?

2) As a Magical Beast, does the Magical Beast trait of darkvision
apply to a familiar?

The familiar rules are not as clear as they need to be, I'm sure some
of the longtime arcane casters will be able to point me in the right
directions. My sorceror cohort thanks you for your support.

 

[Bigwilly]

No darkvision for familiars

1) Is a familiar's type Magical Beast (Augmented Animal)?

Yes, but as stated in the SRD it doesn't gain any abilities of a magical beast: "It retains the appearance, Hit Dice, base attack bonus, base save bonuses, skills, and feats of the normal animal it once was, but it is treated as a magical beast instead of an animal for the purpose of any effect that depends on its type."

While this is not 100% clear, I read it more that if you want to cast a spell or otherwise affect a familiar, it is treated as a magical beast. The 'magical' nature of the familiar is the abilities it gets which are solely based on the caster level of the PC.

2) As a Magical Beast, does the Magical Beast trait of darkvision apply to a familiar?

I would say no. The SRD states: "Use the basic statistics for a creature of the familiar’s kind, but make the following changes". The changes listed do not include adding darkvision.

This smells like an attempt to min/max or powergame to me. Then again, as a DM I fall into the category of it's it not specifically stated in the book you ain't getting it. In fact I am in the category of I don't care what it says in the book, you are NOT doing that in my campaign. My only concession is that if my players can't do it, then neither can my BBEGs.

Bigwilly, NSEDM

 

[Thanee]

Yes, familiars get darkvision.

Familiars have the type magical beast (augmented animal).

It even lists familiars specifically in the MM 3.5 listing of creature types IIRC, can't find it in the SRD, tho.

Bye
Thanee

 

[strongbow]

<sniff> wow new powergamer scent

Edit: I'm the original poster, in case some readers didn't catch that

 

[Scion]

I am confused, how is it powergaming to wonder if your familiar gets darkvision, when most magical beasts have darkvision?

Where is the overwhelming power? the 'min/maxing'? Seems like a simple enough question. Where is the 'bad' part?

It does seem that in 3.5 familiars gain darkvision. Apparently some people think this is overpowered (for some reason that I do not know), but without a rule stating that they dont gain what magical beasts normally gain (there is a list of things that dont change, special qualities does not seem to be on it) then they should get it.

If there is some sort of strange abuse that could come from this I am all ears

 

[Laman Stahros]

It even lists familiars specifically in the MM 3.5 listing of creature types IIRC, can't find it in the SRD, tho.

Bye
Thanee

Not that I can find.

 

[Bigwilly]

Powergaming

I am confused, how is it powergaming to wonder if your familiar gets darkvision, when most magical beasts have darkvision?

Scion, apologies if you were just looking for clarification but I tend to treat anything along the lines of do I get this cool extra ability for free as powergaming or at least min/maxing.

On the argument that most magical beasts have darkvision - a familiar does not gain any of the other abilities of a magical beast (d10 HD, Ftr BAB, etc.) so I would also rule that it doesn't get darkvision. In my opinion it becomes a magical beast because it is a familiar, not because it gains the abilities of a magical beast. Of course, that's just my opinion and how I rule it in my campaign.

Bigwilly, NSEDM

 

[Thanee]

Not that I can find.

It's under Augmented Subtype in the back of the book. It lists the raven familiar as an example of this type (Magical Beast (Augmented Animal)).

It also says quite clearly that a raven familiar has the traits of a magical beast, and if you browse a few pages further, these traits include darkvision.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Thanee]

In my opinion it becomes a magical beast because it is a familiar, not because it gains the abilities of a magical beast. Of course, that's just my opinion and how I rule it in my campaign.

It's pretty clearly wrong, tho.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Scion]

Scion, apologies if you were just looking for clarification but I tend to treat anything along the lines of do I get this cool extra ability for free as powergaming or at least min/maxing.

While I am not the one who started the thread, I still see no reason why the question would be out of line.

Lets say that we find a passage somewhere that clearly states that familiars definately do get darkvision as befits a magical beast, will you disallow it because it is powergaming at that point?

If not, then the question is definately valid no matter how it was poised, because the answer was hard to find. No more powergaming than wondering if fireball lights things on fire.

On the argument that most magical beasts have darkvision - a familiar does not gain any of the other abilities of a magical beast (d10 HD, Ftr BAB, etc.) so I would also rule that it doesn't get darkvision. In my opinion it becomes a magical beast because it is a familiar, not because it gains the abilities of a magical beast. Of course, that's just my opinion and how I rule it in my campaign.

It may still get the traits. Notice that it specifically mentions which parts stay the same, if it had meant 'everything' it could simply have said that while being a magical beast it still retains all of the properties of an animal, or something like that. Instead it goes through a list that seems to be fairly inclusive and that list ignores the traits.

Oversight? perhaps, but I'd rather go with the benefit of the doubt.. especially when it is an ability given to the familiar