Does a limb provoke/take an AOO?

[Stalker0]

This happened in my game last night. Player disarms a large humanoid. Normally picking the weapon back up provokes an AOO. The large one takes a 5 foot step back reaches into the square 5 foot ahead of him and picks the weapon up.

1) First of all, do you have to be large to do this? Could a medium creature reach into a square ahead of his own?

2) Does this action provoke an AOO?

3) Can the player actually damage the creature with his AOO by hitting the limb?

 

[Aloïsius]

This happened in my game last night. Player disarms a large humanoid. Normally picking the weapon back up provokes an AOO. The large one takes a 5 foot step back reaches into the square 5 foot ahead of him and picks the weapon up.

1) First of all, do you have to be large to do this? Could a medium creature reach into a square ahead of his own?

2) Does this action provoke an AOO?

3) Can the player actually damage the creature with his AOO by hitting the limb?

I would say Yes (a medium size creature can't extand its limb 5 feets to grab a weapon), Yes (hit him on the hand, think about a hobbit striking the foot of a cave troll...) , and Yes (think about the reaction of the troll).

 

[Infiniti2000]

1. The rules are not 100% clear, but my assumption is that you can pick up something from any square you can Reach. This means that a human can pick up an item in any of the 9 squares he can Reach (not counting 3D of course, which would make it 18 cubes above ground or 27 while flying).

2. This also is not clear and was the subject of (some heated) debate recently. The FAQ or perhaps the RotG (I forget which) said that you cannot take an AoO on a creature's limbs, you need to reach into the creature's space. I personally agree with this stance (as an undefined scenario somewhat), so I say No.

3. This goes hand in hand with 2 and the answer is No. If you want, a suggested houserule would be to allow the AoO and that if damage is dealt (hit + overcome DR or whatever) then the action is stopped (i.e. the weapon is not picked up).

 

[Starglim]

This happened in my game last night. Player disarms a large humanoid. Normally picking the weapon back up provokes an AOO. The large one takes a 5 foot step back reaches into the square 5 foot ahead of him and picks the weapon up.

1) First of all, do you have to be large to do this? Could a medium creature reach into a square ahead of his own?

It seems to me that a creature's reach for purposes of picking things up should be the same as its reach for an unarmed strike or claw attack. I've always allowed characters to pick up objects from an adjacent space.

2) Does this action provoke an AOO?

Yes, the creature is taking an action with its limb (part of itself) that provokes an AoO within a threatened space.

3) Can the player actually damage the creature with his AOO by hitting the limb?

The PC can take his AoO and can damage the creature. Presumably he strikes the limb, or he could maybe hit the creature in the face as it leans forward to pick up the item. He doesn't cause any special effect by doing so.

It would be different if the Large creature made the action that provoked with a long object that didn't expose its own body to the threatened space - a reach weapon, perhaps. In that case I would only allow a sunder on the object as an AoO.

 

[Peter Gibbons]

1) First of all, do you have to be large to do this? Could a medium creature reach into a square ahead of his own?

2) Does this action provoke an AOO?

3) Can the player actually damage the creature with his AOO by hitting the limb?

What Infiniti said, except for #3. I would not use his suggested house rule of actually interrupting the action; if you allow the AoO, it would just deal damage, the same as if you Readied an attack on the limb reaching into your threatened area.

 

[HeapThaumaturgist]

Doesn't this sort of back-door called shots, then?

I mean ... not that WotC hasn't already done that with the whole "sunder the hydra" gig.

Can I ready an action to strike a Large Monk when he strikes me from 10' away?

Do I get an AoO against a giant who attempts to use an unarmed strike against me without the feat?

Just seems like you're getting to attack a creature in a square it doesn't occupy.

I believe the creature would PROVOKE an AoO, but that unless the character threatened the creature at the time of the provocation, he couldn't take advantage of it. Thus the guy in the square directly behind the giant could take the AoO for him grabbing the item, but the guy in front of the square the giant is taking the item FROM couldn't, because he isn't threatening the giant. The giant doesn't suddenly take up another square.

--fje

 

[Caliban]

Doesn't this sort of back-door called shots, then?

Not really. You are still only doing abstract hit point damage to the creature, with no game mechanic benefit for striking a particular limb.

Can I ready an action to strike a Large Monk when he strikes me from 10' away?

I would allow it.

Do I get an AoO against a giant who attempts to use an unarmed strike against me without the feat?

No, giants get Slam attacks, which are a type of natural weapon.

Just seems like you're getting to attack a creature in a square it doesn't occupy.

It's limb is in a square that you threaten. So part of the creature definitely occupies it, for that moment.

 

[HeapThaumaturgist]

Okay, then how about this.

I use an unarmed strike without the feat on the guy in the square in front of me. His friend is behind and to the side of him. Can he now attack my "arm" because I'm using a limb to provoke into his friend's square? He doesn't threaten me, only his friend's square.

Just seems like creating a house rule for a situation that just opens up other situations for even more abuse. I could play a viable giant killer just around forcing larger creatures into expanding themselves by creative readying of actions to strike them from squares actually OUTSIDE of their reach.

--fje

 

[Caliban]

Okay, then how about this.

I use an unarmed strike without the feat on the guy in the square in front of me. His friend is behind and to the side of him. Can he now attack my "arm" because I'm using a limb to provoke into his friend's square? He doesn't threaten me, only his friend's square.

Nope, his friends body provides cover, which prevents the AoO.

And even without that, making an unarmed attack specifically only provokes from the person you are attacking.

I suppose you could ready an action to attack that limb, but as a DM I give it a +4 bonus to AC from cover (your buddy), and you would be limited to a single attack against it. Not a viable tactic in most situations.

Just seems like creating a house rule for a situation that just opens up other situations for even more abuse.

I'm not really seeing a lot of abusable situations.

I could play a viable giant killer just around forcing larger creatures into expanding themselves by creative readying of actions to strike them from squares actually OUTSIDE of their reach.

--fje

At one attack a round, then they can 5' step and full attack you. Not really abusable.

And if you are flying and they don't have ranged attacks, you already have them beat.

If you don't allow this, then you are allowing a far more abusable use of Reach, in that it suddenly makes you immune to AoO's for actions that specifically provoke an AoO if you don't have the appropriate feat.

 

[kjenks]

2. This also is not clear and was the subject of (some heated) debate recently. The FAQ or perhaps the RotG (I forget which) said that you cannot take an AoO on a creature's limbs, you need to reach into the creature's space. I personally agree with this stance (as an undefined scenario somewhat), so I say No.

It's in the Main 3.5e FAQ.