Does a limb provoke/take an AOO?

[Hypersmurf]

By the RAW, the giant provokes an AoO that you cannot take if he reaches into an area you threaten without being in an area you threaten.

Actually, if he isn't threatened, he doesn't provoke an AoO at all.

If I am threatened and drink a potion, I provoke an AoO. Anyone who threatens me can hit me.

If I am not threatened and drink a potion, it's not the case that I provoke an AoO that nobody is in a position to take; I simply do not provoke.

"Two kinds of actions can provoke attacks of opportunity: moving out of a threatened square and performing an action within a threatened square."

If I'm performing an action, but not within a threatened square, it's not one of the kinds of action that can provoke an AoO.

-Hyp.

 

[Artoomis]

Actually, if he isn't threatened, he doesn't provoke an AoO at all.

If I am threatened and drink a potion, I provoke an AoO. Anyone who threatens me can hit me.

If I am not threatened and drink a potion, it's not the case that I provoke an AoO that nobody is in a position to take; I simply do not provoke.

"Two kinds of actions can provoke attacks of opportunity: moving out of a threatened square and performing an action within a threatened square."

If I'm performing an action, but not within a threatened square, it's not one of the kinds of action that can provoke an AoO.

-Hyp.

Your first statement is not actually what the rules say. "Performing an action within a threatened square provokes, and the giant is indeed performing an action in a threatened square when he reaches in - though he is only partially in the square, and the rules simply don't address that situation.

I'm of the mind that if the action happens in a threatened square it should provoke an AoO as normal but you can only strike what is in the square - either the giant (just the limb reaching in, but, since there are no "called shots" it is just a swing at the giant in general) or the weapon (disarm or sunder) if that's what reaches into the threatened square with some action that would provoke an AoO.

This approach has it's problems, too, of course, because the system simply was not designed with "reaching in" in mind.

As usual, a little common sense can go a long way.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Your first statement is not actually what the rules say. "Performing an action within a threatened square provokes, and the giant is indeed performing an action in a threatened square when he reaches in - though he is only partially in the square, and the rules simply don't address that situation.

So if a monk punches you, does he provoke an AoO for partially moving out of a threatened square?

If I need to drink a potion, and you threaten me from the east, can I lean so my head is in the adjacent square to the west (that you don't threaten) and drink it without provoking (since the drinking is taking place in an unthreatened square, even though I'm in a threatened square)?

-Hyp.

 

[mvincent]

I think that plausibility and game-balance both demand that an AoO be allowed, FAQ be danged.

I saw the FAQ was quoted, just not the complete answer on the subject. It also contained this:
"If, as DM, this bothers your sensibilities and you and your
players are willing to bend the letter of the rules a bit, consider
the following house rule that the Sage has used in his games in
the past: If a foe would provoke an attack of opportunity with
any action that brings him (or something he holds) into contact
with you or your space, you may make an attack of opportunity
against the foe (or the object he holds, if that’s what’s
contacting you). This means that an ogre trying to initiate a
grapple would provoke an attack of opportunity that you could
make against the ogre (since his hand and arm are clearly
coming within your reach to grab you), while the same ogre
trying to sunder your weapon with his greatclub would provoke
an attack of opportunity that you could make only against the
greatclub (that is, with a disarm or sunder attempt)."

So the FAQ technically supports both methods. I personally don't use this option for AoO's (I consider it unbalancing), but I definitely do allow such attacks with readied actions.

 

[HeapThaumaturgist]

So the FAQ is saying: "Nope, but you can house rule it that way if'n you like."

I just think that it stirs up too many "situational possibilities". I keep getting flashes of miniatures made out of puppets with their dangly-gangly little puppet limbs reaching waaaaaaaaaaaay out and another little puppet coming along and slicing off the puppety arm.

--fje

 

[IanB]

Your first statement is not actually what the rules say. "Performing an action within a threatened square provokes, and the giant is indeed performing an action in a threatened square when he reaches in - though he is only partially in the square, and the rules simply don't address that situation.

Well... no. The giant is in the square(s) he is in, as defined by his face. He is not in any other squares, whether or not he is attacking with reach. That seems pretty clear, by the RAW.

If the giant grapples someone using reach, he is not performing an action in one of the intervening squares or in the target; he is performing an action in his own square, just like he is if he drinks a potion, casts a spell at a target 500 feet away, or attacks an adjacent creature. The action is still being taken by the giant and thus by definition happens in the square the giant occupies. Grappling even has explicit rules for when creatures change squares, and it is certainly not at the point at which AOOs are provoked for starting a grapple.

 

[mvincent]

So the FAQ is saying: "Nope, but you can house rule it that way if'n you like."

Pretty much. But it also supplies those rules, and says that the Sage does this too. It nicely stipulates RAW, and validates the feelings of those that feel otherwise. Everyone wins.

I just think that it stirs up too many "situational possibilities".

I also think it stirs up balance issues... but those that bend RAW are usually ok with such stirrings. I'm a strict rules-minder myself, but even I have a hard time justifying not allowing a PC to ready an action to make a sunder attempt against a spiked chain that is repeatedly smacking him.

 

[Legildur]

"...ogre trying to sunder your weapon with his greatclub would provoke an attack of opportunity that you could make only against the greatclub (that is, with a disarm or sunder attempt)."

Except that you cannot Sunder using an AOO; it requires a Standard Action. Another one of those little errors in the FAQ..... Where is Anubis when you need him??

...but even I have a hard time justifying not allowing a PC to ready an action to make a sunder attempt against a spiked chain that is repeatedly smacking him.

However, THIS is okay, as a Readied Action allows you to take a Standard Action (amongst others).