Does any one else miss Planescape?

[Zelda Themelin]

That's a change instituted in 3e, not by Planescape. Personally I reckon its tolerable anyway, though I'd like them to give a more in-depth explanation as to how the chaotic trait is neutralised.

I agree, if that explanation would be good one. I still don't see why they didn't just keep those critters CN and call them 'chaos monks' or something. This is age of PrC:s, after all.

Well, planes were made more 'easy' for people anyway in 3rd edition. I could notice also few things 'game balance issues installed' IMO.

Compared to 1st edition MoP I say there was some improvements (and better graphic look too), but also some weirdness, power-level lowering (and danger-level), and somehow planes seemed somewhat more 'sterile'.
I like 3rd edition book more, but I like 1st edition book more for it's spirit.

I also missed 'spell differeces' and alteration effect changes 'chaotic' planes caused. I had not wanted to see lists like 1st edition had, but something at least. On alterations, conjuration spell differences etc. Now planes seem like walk in a park for arcane casters. This might also be effect caused by 'lack of detail'. Or should I say, not different enough.

I also missed some classic dangers of astral plane (namely other travellers, which could include demon lords), and classics like Layer of Delusion on Abyss. You know, little things. Scary things, awe-causing things, all that.

 

[Blacksad]

As what comes to general citybook, yes, I'd like that better. However, many people actually playing PS would be disappointed. I don't know how hard it is write source book, that would please both groups. What you think?

If a Sigil book is released, after the generic two other as I have said, to lure customer into buying it, they could write it for PS fan. And with the MotP, MM, MM2, Deities&Demi-Gods if they include some proxy rules, and Monster of Faerun, I think that prety much of all planescape and its feel would be covered in 3rd edition.

 

[Blacksad]

I agree, if that explanation would be good one. I still don't see why they didn't just keep those critters CN and call them 'chaos monks' or something. This is age of PrC:s, after all.

Well the githzerai party member in Torment explain a bit of how he master his blade of chaos, he is LN, and perhaps he tells more when you go further in the game (I haven't finished it yet).

A prestige class for those monk exist, it appeared in Dragon, and looking at the interview of some MotP author, it was meant to be included, but the book is only 224 pages, so they probably had to cut things.

Well, planes were made more 'easy' for people anyway in 3rd edition. I could notice also few things 'game balance issues installed' IMO.

Compared to 1st edition MoP I say there was some improvements (and better graphic look too), but also some weirdness, power-level lowering (and danger-level), and somehow planes seemed somewhat more 'sterile'.
I like 3rd edition book more, but I like 1st edition book more for it's spirit.

I'm not sure on the power-level lowering, after all on average the EL for the random encounter table is around 12-14 for the outer planes.

I also missed 'spell differeces' and alteration effect changes 'chaotic' planes caused. I had not wanted to see lists like 1st edition had, but something at least. On alterations, conjuration spell differences etc. Now planes seem like walk in a park for arcane casters. This might also be effect caused by 'lack of detail'. Or should I say, not different enough.

Here they had to made design decision, they said that the reason that conjuration isn't altered is that now you use the same spell to conjure elemental and outsider, so the astral plane had to be linked to every planes, and so you could conjure anything anywhere.

They reduced spell alterations in different planes due to some complaints on how to manage 36 planes that have different alterations on 13 different school of magic.

I also missed some classic dangers of astral plane (namely other travellers, which could include demon lords), and classics like Layer of Delusion on Abyss. You know, little things. Scary things, awe-causing things, all that.

well, the 3rd edition astral encounter table has encounter for wiz, Sor, Clr level17 in astral form, you can also find genie, titan and some devil and demon, so I wouldn't consider it a nice playground

It doesn't have demon lord for 2 reasons I think: curently no stats for them, and 2nd edition decision to never include unique creatures in random encounter table.

 

[Zelda Themelin]

Hi,

Yep, I do realize many of those alterations were design decisions for most part. Few of them seem to be out of blue, so to say, and others were part of 'no demons'-potitics.

I woudn't have wanted to see anything like 1st edition long list for spell alterations. But I had wanted to see some optional guide-lines for people who want to make planes more 'different'. Ideas for different spell-school types etc.

I can make them up myself, but it had been nice for them to include such guideline.

As to powerlevel. It's not about ECL:s. It is lack of unique beings and easier survival level (think positive/negative energy planes) on planes for lower-level characters. I could say, it all comes from lowered power-level of PC:s.

Whatever this is good or bad, is pretty depandant on one's opinions what planes should be like. I personally like both variations, depending on what kind of world/cosmos I want to have my game in.


Do you know where I could find list (with describtions) of every planar/Planescape product, that was made at 2nd edition era?

 

[Henrix]

Do you know where I could find list (with describtions) of every planar/Planescape product, that was made at 2nd edition era?

RPGUnited.com has a list of all (I think) Planescape products here.

It does not show all things available as ESD downloads from Wizards, as some hace been released in that format since they made the list. But you can find that out at the Wizards on-line store.

 

[Blacksad]

Do you know where I could find list (with describtions) of every planar/Planescape product, that was made at 2nd edition era?

the Mimir had such a section, but it is closed, I don't know since when, neither when it will open anew:
http://mimir.net/books/index.html

and a list is available here (without description):
http://www.planewalker.com/bazaar/ps/pslist.shtml

I think it doesn't include warriors of heaven, guide to hell, vortex of madness and die! vecna die!

some out of print planescape material is available here:
http://www.levalet.com/
and here:
http://store.wizards.com/productlist.asp?CategoryID=153&BrandID=88

thats not much

 

[Grraf]

PS also was something else that had never really happened in a D&D setting before (I think). The setting was a city. There were the outer planes you could go to but it was the only setting that revolved completely around this one city, its neighborhoods, and the weird gangs/groups that lived there. But it was still fantasy.

(being from a city I appriciate that). It was also probably the most morally disassociated from real world morality. Every other setting kept the basic moral rules of the real world (TM). Even if you were doomed in Ravenloft and Dark Sun you were still supposed to fight the good fight. PS kind of turned that all around. There were no overarching moral themes, there wasn't really a meta-plot that gave the PCs a predefined roll. In some ways I think that the only other setting that came this close to that was FR (note: I don't know anything about Greyhawk). Most of the other settings had some kind of monolithic evil force hanging around and being obnoxious that was the natural focus of adventuring energy. Sure the blood war was an overarching theme but it really didn't require PC intervention.

 

[The Traveler]

Dis and Dispater are in the public domain, being part of the popular mythological portrayal of Hell. Anyone could write a d20 sourcebook on Dis, and WotC couldn't raise a legal concern.