Does any one else miss Planescape?

[Bozo]

Planescape

Setting wasn't well though out...way too loose..it sucked actually

 

[Tsyr]

The right? Perhaps?

Any reason to? No.

I don't think the idea of playing Romans with guns sounds like fun either, but you don't see me bashing in threads about FVLMINATA.

The question was if anyone missed Planescape. He responded and gave reasons. That fulfuls the topic of this thread.

The places themselves make the planes what they are. So, if you go to an exotic place, it despoils it? Removes the novelty?

I don't think so. There is no novelty AT ALL if you never experience it. Claiming that the ability to go there removes the oddity is highly specious.

...or you could have misunderstood my point. For the most part though, you have the general idea... Planes are not supposed to be something the average person, even the average adventurer, goes to. As I see it, that is. They should be akin to the moon in our world. Possible? Yeah. Something the average person will ever have a hope of seeing? No. (Barring massive advances in science and reduction of cost of spaceflight). If they are just another place... like the West Mountains of the Second Dwarf King or something, they cease to hold as much allure and mystique. As I see it.

And so the REAL problem people have with Planescape comes forth. It's not that it IS a munchkin playground. It's that you want it to be a munchkin playground.

I guess you are a strong believer in the theory "The best defence is a good offence", ne?

No where -not once- did I say that. I said epic, not munchkin. As in legendary, heroic, rare, amazing, the stuff of songs, tell your grandchildren about... that type of epic. Not epic as in Elmunchter.

Then please, do feel free not to buy any hypothetical PS d20 material. Anything else is just whining... and rather pointless whining at that.

Sorry, but voicing our opinions of a setting is not whining. It's voicing our opinions of a setting. And youre right, I will ignore any hypothetical future products, unless it has a crunchy bit I'm after. I certainly have no interest in ever playing there.

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

Sorry, but voicing our opinions of a setting is not whining. It's voicing our opinions of a setting. And youre right, I will ignore any hypothetical future products, unless it has a crunchy bit I'm after. I certainly have no interest in ever playing there.

I agree strongly about the mystique being lost if a 1st level Cleric is adventuring the planes. When my players hit the planes when they get higher level it's not going to be a nice easy trip for low level stuff. It's going to be epic.

 

[Blacksad]

Sorry, but voicing our opinions of a setting is not whining. It's voicing our opinions of a setting. And youre right, I will ignore any hypothetical future products, unless it has a crunchy bit I'm after. I certainly have no interest in ever playing there.

even in the city of Dis ?
it's epic, if you use cant during a trial you're likely to end deep in the most foul jail, it could be inserted in most cosmology's hell...
Still no?

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

My players will be going to Dis in the future. So a sourcebook on that would be cool, but not a planescape style soucebook. Just a generic book on the city of Dis. Leave the cant and factions out of it.

 

[Zelda Themelin]

Ok, change my statement to I don't like what 2e did with fiends and everything else. My cosmology is pure 1e. Bel rules the first plane of hell? Bah! It's TIAMAT'S plane dagnabit!

I use 1st edition cosmos as well, though I have stolen few interesting creatures and ideas of later books. Thing is, most of new stuff just doesn't go well with Oerth and things I like to think as part of that world's mythology.

In those games of my Bloodwar is out (I dislike it anyway), Sigil is out, 1st level planar dwelling humans are out, and same go for many other implications (actually most of 2nd edition).

Well, if I'd keep game in Forgotten Realms, Planescape & Second edition planar ideas is not so out. FR:s current incarnation with portals and planar blooded creatures everywhere, behaviour of gods etc. kind of implies something like Planescape would very well be fitting planar system. Besides, I feel strongly PS was made FR in mind. There are modules and mentions of gods etc to support this.

One thing I seriously wonderer about planar things of 2nd edition was not 'we can't call them devils or demons, no, psionics does not exist, no, psionics does exist after all etc.'- machinations of 2nd edition. That was company politics and monetary issues.

However, there was Monster c. sheets published for planes before PS. And then PS monster book came out with pretty same monsters, but with one exception. One could get much less exp for killing them. WHAT? That really made me wonder, because planar characters of PS were not any more powerful than regular elf/human/dwarf and if they were, it was shown in their exp tables. And those critters hadn't become any less dangerous.

 

[Carnifex]

Well real change, that bothers we is what I already mentioned,

It's that part about 'strongly chaos-aligned trait of Limbo neutralized by wall of these githzerai monastriies".

Little group of crazy LN monks wanting to live in Limbo is another thing, having ability to alter basic nature of alignmental outer plane is another. Especially some group of opposite alignment creatures.

Ok, sure this could be possible, but it removes idea of planes being sort of 'arctypes' they appear to be otherwise.

That's a change instituted in 3e, not by Planescape. Personally I reckon its tolerable anyway, though I'd like them to give a more in-depth explanation as to how the chaotic trait is neutralised.

 

[Blacksad]

My players will be going to Dis in the future. So a sourcebook on that would be cool, but not a planescape style soucebook. Just a generic book on the city of Dis. Leave the cant and factions out of it.

That's exactly what I propose!

I liked Sigil but my player feared to go in it due to the presence of the overzealous lawful faction and strange lingo, though they didn't mind going in the nine hell, I have always considered the cant and faction a Sigil thing, and was a bit disapointed when the inner-plane book had a lot of the places of interest linked to different faction, though it didn't use a cant (it was mostly native that described their environment, so no cant here).

Nonetheless the Planescape style might work.
Something that the designer once said was that some books like faces of evil (or faces of fiends?) a very good book on fiends wasn't a seller due to the planescape logo (I haven't this book, I'll probably buy it if it is available as an ESD, so Psion could you please tell a bit of what was in this book, it might interest people who only get the first boxed set and think planescape is only that, and say if it use a lot of cant).

Latter they released planar book, same design as the planescape book minus faction and the Planescape logo: warriors of heaven, legion of hells, and vortex of madness, and they said (but I think it was on the old WotC board so it doesn't really help) that those book sold a lot more (and warriors of heaven isn't even close to an average product), so the Planescape-style might be ok for you if they don't use the cant (i.e. it is always in an open ended fashion that allow the DM to customize as he likes, with opposed belief and other things, you could see such an example in the above post with the spire from the neutral plane).

 

[Carnifex]

However, there was Monster c. sheets published for planes before PS. And then PS monster book came out with pretty same monsters, but with one exception. One could get much less exp for killing them. WHAT? That really made me wonder, because planar characters of PS were not any more powerful than regular elf/human/dwarf and if they were, it was shown in their exp tables. And those critters hadn't become any less dangerous.

This was something really, really bizarre. And no, it wasn't the fault of the Planescape designers - they didn't suddenly decide to give out less XP just because it was planar characters fighting them.

If you use the table given in the 2e DMG for how to calculate a monsters XP, then the calculations give you the XP values as they were designated in the Planescape books.

For some odd reason that I am not privy to, in the previous outer planes monster compendium, they massively bumped up the XP from what it should have been. I have no idea why - maybe someone else more learned has the answer?

 

[Zelda Themelin]

My players will be going to Dis in the future. So a sourcebook on that would be cool, but not a planescape style soucebook. Just a generic book on the city of Dis. Leave the cant and factions out of it.

I was there as PC recently. My dm run altered adventure by Green Ronin called 'Hell in Freeport'. He partially rewrote it, and added power level so my 15th level character really felt small. Treasure sucked too. I got a feeling, yeh, this is how Dis is (and I happened to spend a lot that time in one particular prison). That was scary. Luckily I have good dm. I read the adventure itself later, and it was partially quite different.

Worst problem with planar adventures seem to be, that companies making modules balance them to suit certain power level. Unfortunaly, this 'balance' always has side effect of making potentianally epic things lame, since you don't meet any 'really bad opponets', 'cause that would be 'unfair'. This has effect of making very important places ruled my mid-level goons.

When I first read PS first box, I kind of thought thas cant-thing was something, that locals of Sigil used (aka. your avarage tiefling). Then, unfornunaly, someone gets idea, its so 'cool' it must absolutely be used everywhere. Uh, that was stupid. Besides, it made some IC-parts pain to read, except maybe to those people who had lovingly mamorized cant. I thought that word-play in some of white wolf games was silly. Ok, Vampire was first, but afterward I realized there was different 'Lexigon-must' for every critter. And in this game Immortal the Invisible War they had to give new never used before mythic termonology to everything.

PS universe or not, I'd say celestial calling somebody 'perk' would be likely to loose creditibility.

As what comes to general citybook, yes, I'd like that better. However, many people actually playing PS would be disappointed. I don't know how hard it is write source book, that would please both groups. What you think?