Does any one else miss Planescape?

[Blacksad]

It left elements of it's 'corruption' as I call it, to new more neutrally usable 3rd edition Manual of Planes. Like originally chaotic neutral Githzerai (Fiend Folio, 1st ed AD&D) living in Limbo, suddenly being lawful neural monks living in Limbo still (Yeh, sure) to mention one

I haven't see any LN githzerai in Planescape books, I think that LN githzerai and all the zerthimon stuff come from "Planescape: Torment" the CRPG.

Still no one apart Horacio who thinks my idea of city-book would be cool ?

 

[Zelda Themelin]

I think this kind of comments are what makes us Planescape fans think that PS-haters don't understand some fundamental axiom of the setting. It's the basic misunderstanding.

Planescape is not supposed to be the cosmos of your campaign setting.

It will never work if you try to use it that way. It will take away the sense of wonder of the planes. It will seem illogical in many places. It will seem under or over-powered.

Yep, how true. Unfortunaly, at time of 2nd edition, there was no neutral planar book. Planes were supposed to be - Planescape, that's that. When they still marketed system, they didn't say how different it was going to be, or that it was place to 1st edition characters to live now, it was supposed to be 2nd edition planar book, with name 'Planescape'. It was not that, when it appeared.

So, people like me, who had been waiting for new planar book for 2nd edition, we never got that.

So, if we wanted to know about planes, there was no choice. It was either PS or Ist edition book, that was pretty Fantasy-'Earth' in mythos level, expect for few non-human deities, and spells and many other rule things had been outdated (spellnames changed etc).

If you say Planescape was not meant to be cosmos for, let's say, Forgotten Realms, read again, there was a lot of PS stuff in modules etc.

I really don't get idea, it was not supposed to be planar system of every TSR world out there. Even Spelljammer was supposed to be, but SJ was easy thing to dismiss, since it was new thing.

And if you have ever for example checked Concordant Opposition of 1st edition, you probably understand better 'corruption of PS' I am referring to. Placement of Sigil in map is absurb 1st editon planar concept in mind and little things like this.

I am not Planescape hater, or anything like that. Guess I dislike the false marketing at the time.

And fact there never was good source book for those people, who didn't want to start 1st level plane-dwelling characters.
Even MoP is 'lamer' now than it's 1st editon book used to be. Much better written and good sourcebook still, and I like it.

 

[Zelda Themelin]

I haven't see any LN githzerai in Planescape books, I think that LN githzerai and all the zerthimon stuff come from "Planescape: Torment" the CRPG.

MoP p. 94 under Limbo Inhabitants. It's that part about 'strongly chaos-aligned trait of Limbo neutralized by wall of these githzerai monastriies" that puts me off most.

Torment was very cool game.

And, additionally, if past has of intrest:

What comes to original story of Limbo-dwelling githzerai, see 1st edition Fiend Folio p.45

And if anyone is interested about my Concordant Opposition/Sigil comment, see 1st edition Manual of the Planes p.115, distance from the center table is of particular intrest here.

 

[Blacksad]

MoP p. 94 under Limbo Inhabitants. It's that part about 'strongly chaos-aligned trait of Limbo neutralized by wall of these githzerai monastriies" that puts me off most.

Torment was very cool game.

yep, that's in MotP because it was in Torment, but I think it never was in any Planescape (meaning 2nd edition planar stuff) book.

 

[Zelda Themelin]

yep, that's in MotP because it was in Torment, but I think it never was in any Planescape (meaning 2nd edition planar stuff) book.

Possible, though doubtful IMO. In my experience computer game storylines were not installed (think Throne of Bhaal storyline, beyond stuff in Dragon magazine), though book-storylines were in many cases installed. Torment might be exception, though.

There are other 'minor things' like Slaadi having no plane travel abilites whatsoever. I really wonder what part of 'may travel planes at will' (not every slaad-type however) they didn't understand. I guess no-direct mention to certain spell, makes it so hard to convert.

 

[Carnifex]

Zelda -

I'm afraid your mention of 'corruption' in terms of Planescape turning the githzerai from CN to LN monks is inaccurate. Throughout Planescape, the previous 'version' of the githzerai was maintained - or at least, if it was changed, this occurred before Planescape anyway.

I myself, a PSer, was surprised at the change, but to be honest, the fact that monks have to be lawful meant I expected something like that might happen, considering the background of the gith in limbo.

 

[Blacksad]

And if anyone is interested about my Concordant Opposition/Sigil comment, see 1st edition Manual of the Planes p.115, distance from the center table is of particular intrest here.

well, 3rd edition, and 1st have the same distances, and Planescape had variable distances 3d6 days to get from one point to another IIRC. What's the problem here?

PS: yes I have a 1st and 3rd edition of manual of the planes here, but I haven't all of my Planescape boxed set handy

 

[tsadkiel]

What comes to original story of Limbo-dwelling githzerai, see 1st edition Fiend Folio p.45

And while you're there, check out the mention of Githzerai monks, which were completely absent in Planescape.

3e Githzerai are (flavor-text wise) almost identical to 1e Githzerai - the only real change is the "Any Neutral" mention, which was made to account for the monks, rather than declaring that Gith monks are Chaotic Neutral, which the Fiend Folio did.

 

[Zelda Themelin]

well, 3rd edition, and 1st have the same distances, and Planescape had variable distances 3d6 days to get from one point to another. What's the problem here?

Well, this might be mistake in my part. Oh, it would be great to find out it has been all this time.

So tell me that Sigil is not in center of Concordant Oppision (where neither nor god can come closer than 100 miles of center). Sigil seems to be set over the center.

 

[Zelda Themelin]

And while you're there, check out the mention of Githzerai monks, which were completely absent in Planescape.

3e Githzerai are (flavor-text wise) almost identical to 1e Githzerai - the only real change is the "Any Neutral" mention, which was made to account for the monks, rather than declaring that Gith monks are Chaotic Neutral, which the Fiend Folio did.

Well, ok, this was not Planescape then, I am cool with that.

Changing something to opposite alignment is not minor, especially not in planes. Same you would say it's ok this greature used to be LG, now we say it is CE group of creatures living in Heaven.

Well real change, that bothers we is what I already mentioned,

It's that part about 'strongly chaos-aligned trait of Limbo neutralized by wall of these githzerai monastriies".

Little group of crazy LN monks wanting to live in Limbo is another thing, having ability to alter basic nature of alignmental outer plane is another. Especially some group of opposite alignment creatures.

Ok, sure this could be possible, but it removes idea of planes being sort of 'arctypes' they appear to be otherwise.