StreamOfTheSky
Adventurer
So, a bunch of people who don't even use point buy are posting in a thread about the changes to the point buy system in PF just to say it doesn't affect them because they don't use point buy rules. Basically.
Does anybody else hate the Point Buy Sell Off?
- Thread starter Fishbone
- Start date
gamerprinter
Mapper/Publisher
The OP question was "Does anybody else hate point buy sell off..."
While a simple yes or no suffices, perhaps. Me saying I don't use point buy - so no I don't hate the 'point buy sell off" is an answer to the OP.
If the question include a stipulation that "only those who also hate should answer" or "only those who use point buy, should answer" - I'd have stayed out of the thread. It didn't, so I answered, with my specific view on the question of the OP.
It may not be the best answer, but its an answer.
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gamerprinter
Mapper/Publisher
Certainly, if it was true - the most useful, not at all, but it falls within the frame of the question, as in like/not like.
I don't think Point Buy will go away, its how PFS expects its character builds. But the game doesn't require point buy to work, and not to deny it's existence to those users who prefer point buy, I just as soon have it not exist at all (though options are always good). And since a change to point buy might affect PFS - it really is only a concern for organized play. If you don't like their change in your personal game, you can always houserule back to the origin version. There's no problem that I can readily see.
Perhaps the OP should have been framed as "For those using Point Buy, does the Sell Out affect you - and how?" - which would have excluded me from participation, but it wasn't so I participated (how ever inappropriately you feel that it was done.) You might read the OP as stating as above, I didn't read it that way.
Regardless, I won't participate in this thread anymore, as I've already answered - despite your misgivings.
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Flatus Maximus
First Post
Magic-user from the Dragonlance novels.
If you ask me you still cant get a Stat higher than 18 so it doesn't really matter. As a DM, you can hit them where they're weaknesses are. If some one Dumps int and wis. All you need is to bring it down to 1 with some handy spells. and hit them with a poison.
Or you can do what I always do when I run a game. NEVER LET THEM DO 25 POINT BUY do like 15 points.
Also realize that Pathfinder RPG is 3.5. If you dont like a certain rule from pathfinder (I.E. CMD and CMB) take 3.5's way of doing it.
Or you can do what I always do when I run a game. NEVER LET THEM DO 25 POINT BUY do like 15 points.
Also realize that Pathfinder RPG is 3.5. If you dont like a certain rule from pathfinder (I.E. CMD and CMB) take 3.5's way of doing it.
Two points:
1} Point buy in general has its purpose. It allows players to experiment and create characters outside of the DM's all-seeing eye and everything is trustworthy. (If higher than 1st level, roll the hp at the table 1st session.) It's not for everyone but the system itself isn't a bad thing.
2} The real problem being discussed is dump stats. REALLY dumped stats, that is. So solve the problem. We don't formally write down this rule, but all of the groups I play in / DM for "allow" a minimum score (after modifications) of 8, and generally in only one stat. So five out of six need to be 10 or more and the basement value is 8.
At the same time we allow 25 point buy, which allows creation of versatile and powerful characters without imposing pressure to squeeze bonuses at the cost of stupid unrealistic penalties.
Were I playing a 15 point buy, I'd be sore tempted to dump stats as far as possible so the things I want my PC to do he/she could.
1} Point buy in general has its purpose. It allows players to experiment and create characters outside of the DM's all-seeing eye and everything is trustworthy. (If higher than 1st level, roll the hp at the table 1st session.) It's not for everyone but the system itself isn't a bad thing.
2} The real problem being discussed is dump stats. REALLY dumped stats, that is. So solve the problem. We don't formally write down this rule, but all of the groups I play in / DM for "allow" a minimum score (after modifications) of 8, and generally in only one stat. So five out of six need to be 10 or more and the basement value is 8.
At the same time we allow 25 point buy, which allows creation of versatile and powerful characters without imposing pressure to squeeze bonuses at the cost of stupid unrealistic penalties.
Were I playing a 15 point buy, I'd be sore tempted to dump stats as far as possible so the things I want my PC to do he/she could.
Starbuck_II
Explorer
I don't mind the point buy-sell off for one simple reason. It keeps everyone equal by rule. Everyone has the same number of points and therefore are equally "heroic."
What it helps eliminate is the parties who rolled their stats and luckily (or however else) got 17s and 18s, but who's one lowly member managed to roll a 6 here and a 7 here.
If you were to "roll" a character poorly, you've potentially not only gimped your character, but maybe your entire party. And while there could be some entertaining roleplaying with a character with low stats, the rollplaying would suffer.
Besides modern d20 games like 4e and Pathfinder have now really put the emphasis on just a couple stats as opposed to older editions. There are so many abilities and feats now to allow to you hit using other stats, ect. in order to make up for the dump stat that it really dosn't handicap you other than in a roleplaying sense - - - in which case... why worry about it? So you have a clumsy fighter. You knock things off the bar. Big whoop. You have an 8 INT with your paladin. You don't have to play them lawful stupid, they could have simply been so focused on following their deity they simply haven't aquired a lot other worldly knowledge. Those things don't make your character's less heroir... you're still cutting down dragons and saving towns.
Now I used to be absolutely against dump stats, but I begin to see the flavor they can add to my roleplaying experience. I'm currently playing a game where I have absurdly high stats as per the character rollup: 5d6, keep 3 highest, re-roll 1s AND 2s. And while it's fun to be almost super-hero like, it also makes the roleplaying aspects a little silly. The DM is forced to AMP the DC so high on some things, that they almost don't make sense:
"So I'm going to try to scare this kid... and make him run away"
"Cool, roll for it"
"19, plus bonuses ... is a 31"
"Good job, the kid just stares at you"
"What?"
"Yeah, he's not intimidated in the slightest"
"Holy
, I could have scared that kid myself... in real life""Yeah... maybe"
Extreme example, but you get my point.
The point but puts everyone on equal footing, and some chose to gimp their INT and CHA to make a Conan-eqsue Barbarian than that sure as hell seems to make more sense than the Barbarian with 20 STR (after racial) and no other stat lower than 12. You've now rolled the Incredible Hulk, but with Bruce Banner's brain in constant control of all that might.
