Does anyone actually like Dragonborn and Tieflings?

[ProfessorCirno]

And here is me saying that doesn't dispute a single word I just said. In fact, it reinforces it.

That actually refers to giving an alternative to playing a Drizzt-type. I don't think that meshes with your claim that tieflings were modeled on Drizzt.

I don't see the difference there. "Man, I want to play a Drizzt type of character. Hey, look, the new tieflings were modeled based on 'why go with Drizzt when you can do this?' Awesome, it looks made just for me!"

And then the rest of the group secretly plots to kill him.

 

[ProfessorCirno]

You sure about that? My group likes both the new races, and we, collectively, know our way around fantasy. In fact, we incorporated the whole Tiefling/Dragonborn war into our new homebrew. A first for us, being inspired by RAW fluff.

Ok? Lots of people like lots of things. That doesn't change the fact that the PHB literally states that Dragonborn are for people who want to play as dragons.

 

[hong]

I don't see the difference there. "Man, I want to play a Drizzt type of character. Hey, look, the new tieflings were modeled based on 'why go with Drizzt when you can do this?' Awesome, it looks made just for me!"

And then the rest of the group secretly plots to kill him.

Your group sounds a bit dysfunctional.

 

[Fenes]

If Dragonborn are supposed to be for people who like to play Dragons, then the race fell far, far short of the mark.

I consider the race ugly, and unsuited for all campaign settings I play.

 

[Hussar]

Anti-hero doesn't have to mean evil, it usually just means "bad tempered or otherwise "not so good" hero that kills evil with lots of violence and other dark touches".

Tieflings and Dragonborn seem to fit this rather well, compared to say the clichee Paladin that upholds honor and good without using every means at his disposal.

I would point out that this is false.

Anti-heroes aren't just a slightly dirty sort of hero. Anti-heroes are out and out evil. These are people who are only incidentally doing something that helps other people. Elric commits genocide against his own species, as an example of anti-hero. Angus Thermopolye from Donaldson's Gap series is a multiple murderer and rapist. Belkar is flat out evil.

These are anti-heroes. Batman, Wolverine and various others are not.

Ok? Lots of people like lots of things. That doesn't change the fact that the PHB literally states that Dragonborn are for people who want to play as dragons.

Which is different from your first point that tieflings are for people who want to play Drizzt. Besides which, what's wrong with wanting to play something draconic?

 

[Fenes]

Nothing wrong, but someone wanting to play a Dragon playing a Dragonborn looks to me like someone wanting a 200 oz. Sirloin steak ordering tofu.

(I like Tofu, but I'd never mistake it for steak.)

And if you drop the - rather pretentious - "Dragon" from the name, you've got tailless lizardfolk. Something we already had, just graphically redesigned like the Tiefling ("Now with boobs! and no tail!").

 

[Fenes]

I would point out that this is false.

Anti-heroes aren't just a slightly dirty sort of hero. Anti-heroes are out and out evil. These are people who are only incidentally doing something that helps other people. Elric commits genocide against his own species, as an example of anti-hero. Angus Thermopolye from Donaldson's Gap series is a multiple murderer and rapist. Belkar is flat out evil.

These are anti-heroes. Batman, Wolverine and various others are not.

Wiki disagrees with you. Batman at least started out as an anti-hero in his time.

Just, these days, what was an anti-hero 10 years ago, is now closer to what we consider a hero.

And hulking lizard mercenaries certainly qualify for anti-heroes, compared to paladins, good clerics, folk heroes, etc.

 

[Dr. Strangemonkey]

Wiki disagrees with you. Batman at least started out as an anti-hero in his time.

Just, these days, what was an anti-hero 10 years ago, is now closer to what we consider a hero.

And hulking lizard mercenaries certainly qualify for anti-heroes, compared to paladins, good clerics, folk heroes, etc.

Batman's initial characterization (essentially James Bond in Costume) is very different from the way the character came to be defined over the history of its run. It's not at all fair to claim the standards of the time have changed based on this character when the character changed so much and so quickly away from the anti-hero origins.


As for the specific point on Dragonborn:

If you're living in a DnD world I don't think hulking lizard would be discomfiting. The deity of Justice is a dragon for land's sake.

And as for

mercenaries

: I don't think you can call the Seven Samurai anti-heroes just because they fought under contract.

 

[Fenes]

My campaign's god of justice is not a dragon.

 

[Steely Dan]

My campaign's god of justice is not a dragon.

Mine is Joe Pesci.