Does Anyone Care? (Cosmere RPG)

[Thomas Shey]

You say you've "seen a number", and my instinctive inclination was to agree, then I looked on Kickstarter just to find some funny examples to mock for us, and I'm not really seeing any actual examples! We look at the "pretty good Kickstarter" range (what, like north of $100k? higher?) that IP-based games operate in (often they're very far north of that), all the non-IP KS'd TTRPGs I can see have, in fact got support and people playing them and so on, even 7th Sea 2nd Edition (amazingly, I didn't think it would have).

Why would I limit it to Kickstarters that high? Most of the time when kickstarters want that much money, they're planning to do a lot of hardcopy material and add-ons and/or are big ticket producers in the first place. I'm looking at KSes that got multiples of what they asked for, but still either have faded from view or never got all that much visibility in the first place.

Just taking from my own Kickstarters (I'm mildly embarrassed to admit I have a superbacker flag):

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/wgfproductions/hc-svnt-dracones-20/description

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/csev/black-void-rpg/description

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/482738549/the-sword-of-cepheus-second-edition/descriptionhttps://www.kickstarter.com/projects/shadowlandsgames/raven/description

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/rgbarros/byte-roleplaying-game-rulebook/description

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ettin/hard-wired-island/description

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/heroes-and-hardships/heroes-and-hardships-core-rulebook/descriptionhttps://www.kickstarter.com/projects/oddfishgames/the-radiance-adventure-engine/description

Some of those haven't completely vanished from view, but I'd be surprised if most of the people in this thread have even heard of half of them.

Whereas like the Altered Carbon RPG, have you even ever heard of that? It made $370k. Even the people who like it say "Wow no-one plays this, huh?" I'd be extremely confident in claiming many times as many people are playing Forbidden Lands, which made $295k, and is original.

I guess there's Invisible Sun, which seems to be owned-but-not-played, but like, I kind of thought that was the point (and surely one of the maniacs on this board has made his group play it!).

I don't want to argue a point I'm too lazy to research too strongly, but lazy casual "looking at a big list of RPGs that made money on KS and having to scroll past all the videogames KS doesn't let you exclude" tends to support my position imho. Not exactly compelling evidence I admit!

Well, anything is going to be anecdotal, but if you don't limit yourself to big ticket games, I think the numbers look quite different. Most big-ticket non-IP games are from people who already have a fanbase to ride on (I wouldn't list Shadow of the Weird Wizard for example, because it had it sown already established quasi-fandom in the RPG community right out the gate).

 

[Hermes_Alexandria]

As someone who literally owes my life to what I learned from Camus’ The Myth Of Sisyphus and The Rebel and Franks’s Man’s Search For Meaning, I very strenuously disagree. I won’t pursue the digression, because every noun and adjective that I think of to use in response violates site norms, and I respect them. But wow. You are very wrong.

I only got into the Stormlight series after I found out the worldbuilding is loosely based on neo-platonism, which is one of my favourite philosophies.

I have dropped off the series since so much of Sanderson's set up is two people not talking to each other. Currently re-reading the Mistborn series and enjoying it more now, because of the additional context of the Cosmere.

 

[Cordwainer Fish]

I have dropped off the series since so much of Sanderson's set up is two people not talking to each other.

No wonder he got the nod to finish the Wheel of Time.

 

[mamba]

Some of those haven't completely vanished from view, but I'd be surprised if most of the people in this thread have even heard of half of them.

they made $50k or less with 1000 or even only 400 backers, that hardly anyone plays them or has heard of them seems to be the logical conclusion

 

[Neonchameleon]

I personally call BS on all claims to people being scared off by IP or lore or metaplot.

Warhammer does fine, there are good sales, and plenty of indication that new players are joining all the time. Even those who have never seen, let alone played the wargame.

Warhammer has more hooks than velcro and incredible visual design. You can basically look at any character to see what their deal is and the settings are both broad enough that there will be something you find incredibly cool and big enough that the metaplot is happening over there - and not everyone knows much about what is going on in character. And the video game side is a significant draw.

Cthulhu is a classic example of nearly nobody I have ever met (or very few) having ready any H.P. Lovecraft, let alone the titular "The Call of Cthulhu" story. And its a huge selling game, embraced by a vast majority of people who have no clue about the mythos and the staggering amount of lore, books, and novels around it.

There are books? Call of Cthulhu is meme-level popular because of the game

Start Trek, Fallout, Dune, and other series see players despite no-read.

Fallout is a CRPG series. Dune's niche.

It much more often comes down to marketing.

I had no idea how little (absolutely nothing) you need to know about Sanderson's novels to play Cosmere. There is about the same amount of lore and metaplot as there is in most RPGs, and none of it was confusing or missing context.

But what are the non-Sanderson hooks? You can sell Call of Cthulhu in 30 seconds flat and WFRP in not much longer - or with a handful of minis. Star Wars is Star Wars and Trek is Trek.

Why as a non-fan of Sanderson would I want to play in Cosmere? What does it do as a setting that others don't do as well. I've literally never seen this pitch.

I mean, Daggerheart has no meaningful lore at all, and we find players are not enjoying that. They read it, try it, then go back to 5E where they came from.

I mean you may have seen a few. Meanwhile I see players try it and then convert their 5e campaigns.

 

[Parmandur]

I only got into the Stormlight series after I found out the worldbuilding is loosely based on neo-platonism, which is one of my favourite philosophies.

I have dropped off the series since so much of Sanderson's set up is two people not talking to each other. Currently re-reading the Mistborn series and enjoying it more now, because of the additional context of the Cosmere.

There are Neo-Platonist elements to the Cosmere as a whole, and the stormlight Archives does dive into it a bit more...directly.

The Attributes in the game divide into Phyiscal, Cognitive, and Spiritual pairs (Strenth and Speed which generate Health Points, Intelligence and Willpower whichngenerate Focus Points, Awarenessand Presence which Generate "Investiture" or Mana), based on the three level metaphysical structure of the Cosmere.

 

[RenleyRenfield]

But what are the non-Sanderson hooks? You can sell Call of Cthulhu in 30 seconds flat and WFRP in not much longer - or with a handful of minis. Star Wars is Star Wars and Trek is Trek.

Why as a non-fan of Sanderson would I want to play in Cosmere? What does it do as a setting that others don't do as well. I've literally never seen this pitch.

I like these questions!

I am not here to sell folks on Cosmere, so this is just me liking that question and trying to answer it for myself ...

A. For me... D&D is a miserable system. It has terrible combat that is sooo tedious. It has no social rules, and there is zero support for character plot development. It's just Diablo with pen and paper. Go, quest, kill, rinse, repeat.

B. I am sick of generic fantasy, especially ones that lean into a foundation of ripping off Tolkien with Elves, Dwarves, Halflings, and humans, wrapped in a western European mythos patina.

C. I have been roleplaying for over 30 years, and I have made a LOT of custom worlds, setting, monsters, etc. I can do this and its fun. But sometimes its fun to dig into someone else's ideas and build from there. Hence why i am ok with Warhammer fantasy (but i like 40k better), and Dune, and Star Trek, and Infinity, and L5R, and Vampire the Masquerade.

D. The forgotten realms and dragonlance settings are bore. I read, played and dug into them decades ago, and they never got better, they just got more nonsense and messy. Especially Realms, its just nothing everything hodgepodge meh. Mork Borg was far more inspiring.

E. Numenera and Invisible Sun didn't deliver on the world and exploration intrigue they said they would. good games, fine rules, but overall just not really anything interesting going on to come back to and dig deeper.

F. For all the reasons folks are fleeing to Daggerheart, I left D&D and more. But Daggerheart is a bad system. And so far nobody has earnestly tried to, or been able to convince me otherwise. It is made of all the right ideas, in all the wrong ways. So when I went looking for other high fantasy games, other than the discontinued Conan 2d20 that i rather loved.... there isn't anything else to dig deep into.
......



Also here is some official Q/A that speaks to most of your questions = Interview with Cosmere (link)

 

[mamba]

so this is just me liking that question and trying to answer it for myself ...

sounds like a lot of words for 'I am bored with the stuff I have done for 30 years already'?

 

[Neonchameleon]

I like these questions!

I am not here to sell folks on Cosmere, so this is just me liking that question and trying to answer it for myself ...

A. For me... D&D is a miserable system. ...

B. I am sick of generic fantasy, ...

C. .... But sometimes its fun to dig into someone else's ideas and build from there. ...

D. The forgotten realms and dragonlance settings are bore. ...

E. Numenera and Invisible Sun didn't deliver ...

I notice a common theme here. You're dissatisfied by D&D. But there is barely one single reason to try Cosmere ahead of about ten thousand other systems, most of which aren't trying to be D&D. It's all about what's wrong with other things.

F. For all the reasons folks are fleeing to Daggerheart, I left D&D and more. But Daggerheart is a bad system. And so far nobody has earnestly tried to, or been able to convince me otherwise. It is made of all the right ideas, in all the wrong ways. So when I went looking for other high fantasy games, other than the discontinued Conan 2d20 that i rather loved.... there isn't anything else to dig deep into.
......

Indeed. No one is trying to sell you personally on Daggerheart because it is clear that despite it being a genuinely great system either you have prejudged it or it doesn't click with you.

Also here is some official Q/A that speaks to most of your questions = Interview with Cosmere (link)

That was about what I feared, thank you. There was little selling in the top half that was non-generic or in any depth (and I know there are things there like the initiative system) - and the bottom third devolved into jargon about highstorms and spren with little attempt to even try to explain them because excitement for the setting is assumed

 

[Parmandur]

I like these questions!

I am not here to sell folks on Cosmere, so this is just me liking that question and trying to answer it for myself ...

A. For me... D&D is a miserable system. It has terrible combat that is sooo tedious. It has no social rules, and there is zero support for character plot development. It's just Diablo with pen and paper. Go, quest, kill, rinse, repeat.

B. I am sick of generic fantasy, especially ones that lean into a foundation of ripping off Tolkien with Elves, Dwarves, Halflings, and humans, wrapped in a western European mythos patina.

C. I have been roleplaying for over 30 years, and I have made a LOT of custom worlds, setting, monsters, etc. I can do this and its fun. But sometimes its fun to dig into someone else's ideas and build from there. Hence why i am ok with Warhammer fantasy (but i like 40k better), and Dune, and Star Trek, and Infinity, and L5R, and Vampire the Masquerade.

D. The forgotten realms and dragonlance settings are bore. I read, played and dug into them decades ago, and they never got better, they just got more nonsense and messy. Especially Realms, its just nothing everything hodgepodge meh. Mork Borg was far more inspiring.

E. Numenera and Invisible Sun didn't deliver on the world and exploration intrigue they said they would. good games, fine rules, but overall just not really anything interesting going on to come back to and dig deeper.

F. For all the reasons folks are fleeing to Daggerheart, I left D&D and more. But Daggerheart is a bad system. And so far nobody has earnestly tried to, or been able to convince me otherwise. It is made of all the right ideas, in all the wrong ways. So when I went looking for other high fantasy games, other than the discontinued Conan 2d20 that i rather loved.... there isn't anything else to dig deep into.
......



Also here is some official Q/A that speaks to most of your questions = Interview with Cosmere (link)

I dig how you are feeling...and I'm not even tired of 5E D&D or generic High Fantasy tropes, bit I do love this Setting and think what they are offering here for ghe rules is the first really interesting alternative to D&D I've seen yet.

Too many other alternatives, for me, lean away from what I think works in D&D while leaning away other aspects in ways I don't find interesting or inspiring.

The Plotweaver system take what works in 5E d&D, and pushes it in an exciting novel direction WotC couldn't even take D&D.