Does anyone think Harm is too powerful of a spell?

[Creampuff]

I had a party averaging 16th level fight a white slaad (CR 21 in the Epic Levels handbook), and they were getting worked until the cleric casting on the defensive cast harm and droped the creature from 300+ hp down to 3. The next segement the arcane archer droped it. The white slaad only has a 21 touch AC (+8 dex, -1 size, and +4 dodge from Blinding Speed feat), and harm doesn't allow a save. Am I alone on thinking that is a bit excessive?

In general, the tougher monsters get in 3E, the higher their Natural Armor, but that does not effect the touch AC. I think for a 6th level spell to do over 300 hp damage and not even allow a save to an epic monster is overpowered. Any other thoughts?

 

[hammymchamham]

... not again

 

[Creampuff]

I'm sorry, has that been discussed before? What was the overwhelming opinion?

 

[Chun-tzu]

One of THE most common house rules for D&D 3E is a save of some kind for Harm. So, yes, many feel it's too powerful. But some feel it's just fine. You can find specific suggestions for Harm in the House Rules forum.

And if you're new here, welcome to the boards!

 

[Lucius Foxhound]

I love these threads!

Harm's fine as is. It just takes a good enough DM to play it right.

Ask Tom Cashel... he may let you join S.H.I.N.Y.

 

[hammymchamham]

I'm sorry, has that been discussed before? What was the overwhelming opinion?

I don't think their is an overwhelming opinion, but there are 3 major camps on the Harm issue

1. Leave it as it is
2. Allow a save
3. Have a damage cap

Any other idea isnt among the 3 popular views when dealing with Harm. I have yet to play in a campaign that has reached the level where Harm has been used (but one of the campaigns I am in is REALLY close), so I don't consider myself to have a very experience opinion on this spell. But as far as I am concered, I'm in camp 1

 

[SpikeyFreak]

Any 5th level spell that can bring a 500hp dragon down to 5hp in one round with no save (I know they still get SR) seems too powerful to me.

But I have little experience with it.

--Fair Spikey

 

[Hypersmurf]

Any 5th level spell that can bring a 500hp dragon down to 5hp in one round with no save (I know they still get SR) seems too powerful to me.

Hell, yes!

That's probably why they made it 6th

-Hyp.

 

[BeholderBurger]

It sounds quite dirty but dont forget that to cast harm the cleric has to be next to the creature. Sounds pretty dangerous to me. Plus a 6th level spell should be pretty damn harsh.

 

[SpikeyFreak]

Err, would you believe thats a typo?

--Clumsy Spikey