D&D General Does D&D (and RPGs in general) Need Edition Resets?

[Minigiant]

Disagree on both counts

You can disagree. But be wrong.

The problem with 4e was that many didn't think it was D&D and it was released before the tech it wanted exist.

That seems highly unlikely.

Maybe with non-inflation adjusted USD, like how Hollywood likes to falsely claim “record” box office for things like Avatar, that actually sold far fewer seats than the real top blockbuster movies like “Gone with the Wind“ and the original “Star Wars”.

Wrong again .

4e was the highest selling RPG until 5e. 4e was never outsold. 4e didn't sell the crazy high numbers WOTC wanted.

That's the issue.

The RPG has to make equal or more than what the publisher wants. That could be 1 million, 10 million, 50 million, 100 million, 500 million or 1 billion.

 

[mamba]

4e was the highest selling RPG until 5e. 4e was never outsold. 4e didn't sell the crazy high numbers WOTC wanted.

do we have some actual numbers to back that up? I am not sure it never was outsold by Paizo, and I am not sure it sold better than 3e or 1e either

We know initial sales were good, and that they fell of a cliff, beyond that however…

 

[Zardnaar]

do we have some actual numbers to back that up? I am not sure it never was outsold by Paizo, and I am not sure it sold better than 3e or 1e either

We know initial sales were good, and that they fell of a cliff, beyond that however…

Indications are ot didn't and new information indicates it didn't sell very well.

I remember tgst they claimed it sold well on pre release and had around 5 million in sales a year on DDI (cf TSR 27 million 1983, 40 million a year in 90s, Paizo 11 million 2012).

Pauzo never claimed they outsold 4E overall but that they were circa by 2010/11.

 

[Parmandur]

Eh there's around 3 maybe 4 good 5E adventures.
Sales yes but there's less innovation in 5E than pretty much every other edition.

81-85 the type of adventures more variety and they invented multiple types of adventures. Dungeon hacks to hex crawls to I6 Ravenloft.
.

It's not like to like: to compare 80's modules, you have to look at individual chapters in 5E books. Abd when you do that, the 5E individual modules hold up very well.

 

[Minigiant]

do we have some actual numbers to back that up? I am not sure it never was outsold by Paizo, and I am not sure it sold better than 3e or 1e either

We know initial sales were good, and that they fell of a cliff, beyond that however…

No one has real numbers. But WOTC executives stated in the initial run and the beginning years 4e outsold 3e by 50%.

And exPaizo exec stated that Pathfinder never outsold 4e.

WOTC killed 4e because it didn't make the crazy high infinite money they projected/expected.

That's the issue with an incremental RPG. Will the publisher reset or kill it when the sales slow?

 

[Zardnaar]

No one has real numbers. But WOTC executives stated in the initial run and the beginning years 4e outsold 3e by 50%.

And exPaizo exec stated that Pathfinder never outsold 4e.

WOTC killed 4e because it didn't make the crazy high infinite money they projected/expected.

That's the issue with an incremental RPG. Will the publisher reset or kill it when the sales slow?

We know 4E sold well early on. Doesn't mean it outsold 3E overall (seems it didn’t Ben Riggs thread).

Since then we also found out 3E wasn't one if the biggest D&Ds and 3.5 was one of the worst performing D&Ds ever.

 

[mamba]

No one has real numbers. But WOTC executives stated in the initial run and the beginning years 4e outsold 3e by 50%.

yes, initially, as I said

And exPaizo exec stated that Pathfinder never outsold 4e.

I heard both sides on these 1) these execs do not really know Paizo and WotC numbers, and other execs with better knowledge contradict them and 2) what you said, so I am withholding judgement on that one

WOTC killed 4e because it didn't make the crazy high infinite money they projected/expected.

it fell off a cliff in sales, that is what killed it (and prematurely at that), it did not just not meet expectations

Well, maybe some time down the line Ben Riggs or someone gets to 4e figures

 

[Minigiant]

We know 4E sold well early on. Doesn't mean it outsold 3E overall (seems it didn’t Ben Riggs thread).

Since then we also found out 3E wasn't one if the biggest D&Ds and 3.5 was one of the worst performing D&Ds ever.

And like 4e, when the incremental RPG slows down, will the publisher stick with it.

WOTC didn't.

 

[Zardnaar]

And like 4e, when the incremental RPG slows down, will the publisher stick with it.

WOTC didn't.

I think the big clue uis 10+ years later there's no retroclone and it's hard to find a 4E game even online

If it was that popular.......

 

[Minigiant]

I think the big clue uis 10+ years later there's no retroclone and it's hard to find a 4E game even online

If it was that popular.......

4e isn't old enough to retroclone.

But my point is that once 4e ran out of easily sold material... out of the stuff the designers could easily port over...

the sales dropped and WOTC killed it.


And 4e was designed to be incremental. Imagine a 3e, 5e, or 2e that wasn't.

You either burn through all the easy stuff like 4e or you slowwalk aspects the fandom wants and get ditched.

You have to design an RPG to be incremental. You need a long timetable or schedule of what you are producing and have a plan in place for either rework revisions or digital errata.

You can't just take any old edition of a RPG and expect to sell it forever with the same skeleton without a plan as a pillar of your economic strategy.

That's why Hasbro is down. The toy stock they have ain't selling like before because they are old.