D&D General Does D&D (and RPGs in general) Need Edition Resets?

What if it isn't? The old thing's gone, and the new thing's no good. Now where are you?

If something isn't broken and is performing its intended function, there's no good reason to try to fix it.

With D&D, the underlying chassis of 0e-1e-2e works just fine but there were lots of individual things riding on that chassis that needed fixing in one way or another (and we could argue forever about which specific things needed which specific repairs, but that's a different discussion). Which meant that to a certain extent, material from any of those editions could be ported over to another without too much problem or conversion required (I'm ignoring some of the late-2e-era splat stuff here).

So fix those bits that need fixing, but leave the underlying chassis alone.

With 3e-4e-5e, WotC have pretty much rebuilt the underlying chassis each time; resulting in neither forward nor backward compatibility. Good for corporate sales, perhaps, but that's the only benefit to anyone that I can see.
Variety, If 4e didnt exist i probably would have looked at WotC's design capabilities with an even less favourable eye.


I desperately want 5e to be less backward compatible than onednd because there are some fubdamental issues I just do not find palatable in any sense of the word, I want its pseudo-OSR lineage utterly excised instead of being this rules part that so many ignore, I want 5e to be designed in accordance with how it's actually played by modern players instead of having so much page space devoted to trying to get back grognards who hate it bow anyways because the play culture dislikes them.
 

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Undoubtedly. But again, I’m on the side of art. A product outlasting its competitors matters infinitely less to me than a game being the best version of itself it can be.
For a game thwt needs to be played at a table to be actuated, I don't really see those as two different things in opposition. The longevity is a strong measure of the design merit. Chess is a great game, with massively solid design. And it has changed over time...but has stabilized at a certain point.
 

Variety, If 4e didnt exist i probably would have looked at WotC's design capabilities with an even less favourable eye.


I desperately want 5e to be less backward compatible than onednd because there are some fubdamental issues I just do not find palatable in any sense of the word, I want its pseudo-OSR lineage utterly excised instead of being this rules part that so many ignore, I want 5e to be designed in accordance with how it's actually played by modern players instead of having so much page space devoted to trying to get back grognards who hate it bow anyways because the play culture dislikes them.
You just described some of the best parts of modern D&D, which h I am glad to see continuing for the foreseeable future.
 


What if it isn't? The old thing's gone, and the new thing's no good. Now where are you?
with the old thing, it’s not really gone after all.

Assuming WotC can learn from mistakes, I sit out an edition and the next one will be better because of the things they learned from the ‘dud’ release. Sounds a lot like the story of 4e to 5e (dud being low sales, not interested in the merits of either edition here)

With 3e-4e-5e, WotC have pretty much rebuilt the underlying chassis each time; resulting in neither forward nor backward compatibility. Good for corporate sales, perhaps, but that's the only benefit to anyone that I can see.
one could argue that all of them made some form of progress in game design over their predecessor
 



I think new editions are very rarely about the game and almost always about the publisher.

Sort of all the editions have issues.

Few get revised.

Big rewrites "solve" some problems but create new ones espicially WotC rewrites.
 
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No. Call of Cthulu has had new editions and refreshes, but for 40 years has remained completely compatible. The D&D approach to Editions was only ever a shady money making scheme from TSR thst WotC early on thought sounded great. But it turns out to be more damaging to profits than helpful. I heard Mearls ipine that if Moldvsy Basic had ascending AC and Race and Class in one box for both Basic and Expert....that TSR could have basically sold it as is forever.

So, now that WotC has learned their lesson, I doubt we shall ever see a "New Edition" with capital N and capital E again. Periodic cleanups and art refreshes, changing things here and there to fit the zeitgisst...but no rules changeover.
Whilst I understand this sentiment, it does have the very unfortunate and large downside of freezing bad systems in amber.

5E is not flawless. Indeed, it has significant flaws. As does CoC, I should note. That's part of the reason why I don't really like to play CoC beyond one-shots and short campaigns anymore. It's not a game I'd play routinely, because it's kind of old and broken, even with the various updates it's had. But because it works well for one-shorts and short campaigns, it keeps selling. That's not how D&D works, in any edition.

And the issue I see is that there are changes 5E needs in order to be genuinely a great D&D game, rather than I think merely one decent game among many (only raised above that by amount and quality of support), gradually increasingly eclipsed by better designs, which couldn't be done whilst maintaining full backwards compatibility.

Mearls is half-right in his claim. They could probably have had small sales of an improved BECMI/RC D&D indefinitely, but the 1990s would have made it just one of the crowd and it would never have re-emerged significantly from the crowd. Without 3E (and to some extent PF and 4E), there would be no massive 5E. There would have been no big cultural resurgence of D&D if D&D was just incrementally improved BECMI - there would just have been some cash-in sales spike around Stranger Things. Because fundamentally a lot of BECMI's systems and approaches aren't great. Instead we'd probably have seen a couple of other RPGs go much, much bigger than they are, but not reach the peaks that 5E has. What RPGs those would be, I have no idea, but I'm confident in saying they wouldn't be slightly upgraded BECMI. There's no way Critical Role, for example, would have picked "upgraded BECMI". Especially as without D&D as a "big dog", there'd have been more competition and advancement in the fantasy RPG space.

Also, the idea that WotC have "learned their lesson" is, frankly, obviously untrue in 2023. It was entirely plausible in say, 2020. But now? No. We know, the 3D VTT and from various comments and the OGL 2.0 debacle, that WotC is essentially trying to do re-enact the plan it had with 4E. It could not be more clear that WotC have not learned lessons. That includes re: editions.

If WotC does freeze D&D in amber, assuming that all those systems are perfect (and again, no major systems can be changed whilst retaining 100% backwards compatibility), what's going to happen is, D&D will gradually decline in popularity, as fewer streamers/YouTubers/etc. use it - they, inarguably, have hugely driven 5E's success. There won't be another Stranger Things (and similar) to given the concept of D&D generally a big boost. That '80s nostalgia era is over, we're into '90s and even '00s nostalgia now (you'll notice that the few new things set in the 1980s are much nastier about the decade and less wistful, now).

At some point during that popularity decline, some bright spark at WotC will convince the appropriate decision-makers that they could reinvigorate D&D, and get it talked about again, by doing a new edition. Time is a flat circle.

And I think Call of Cthulu is a good case study that thisnis feasible: after 40 years, it is still very popular, seemingly the most popular non-d20 derived game on the market from what I have seen. And given the prominence of H. P. Lovecraft int he DNA of the default setting...careful updating has been extremely necessary.
And if D&D had operated like CoC, it would, if anything, be less popular than CoC. CoC succeeds in part because it's different from other RPGs, and works very well for one-shots and short campaigns (the lengthy campaigns like Orient Express don't play as well as they could, and are thus rarely finished). D&D that didn't make major changes would would have vanished among many other RPGs in the 1990s, and whilst it might have sold better than most, it'd be one of the crowd, sales-wise, and that would remain. I mean, if you're happy to see D&D as just a moderately popular RPG among many, that's not particularly easier to find players for, or the like, sure, that's a reasonable approach.

Frankly, the RPG space would probably be healthier if D&D had taken that approach. The d20 explosion did hideous damage to the RPG space, which took more than a decade to even begin to recover from, and didn't really bring in that many new players. But at the same time, without 3E's approach and the d20 explosion, D&D would have just have got less and less popular. Hell, you wouldn't even have had 2E, because you'd just have had this revised-revised-revised BECMI, which would have been looking grottier and grottier. Without the OGL, which you also probably would not have, there'd be no OSR movement either, because people would be too scared of whoever owned D&D. Without d20 to screw everything up, the the big improvements in mechanical design in the 2000s would likely have come in faster, too, for various games.

EDIT - To clarify - I'm not suggesting D&D-style massive edition changes are the right approach for every RPG, or even most, but I am very much suggesting D&D would be absolutely not be "top dog" by a bazillion miles if it wasn't for such changes, and probably wouldn't be "top dog" at all. It also requires one to wilfully blind oneself to the 2E-3E and 4E-5E transitions, both of which significantly boosted D&D's success.
 
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My take: game design evolves. Designers learn and innovate new and better things, and edition change resets are necessary to be able to incorporate new design philosophies and technologies. If you don’t have periodic edition resets, you end up with something like Call of Cthulhu, where in the year of our lord two thousand and twenty three, your game still has fourty three unique skills, not counting potential variations thereupon (like knowing multiple “language: other”s), featuring such gems as drive auto, pilot, and operate heavy machinery as separate skills, which share a zero-sum pool of points with firearms (pistol), firearms (rifle/shotgun), and freaking credit rating.

Now, granted, CoC is a financially successful game, doing about as well as any RPG not named Dungeons and Dragons can be expected to do. But I think one would be hard-pressed to make the case that it’s a better game for having stuck by such an outdated design for so long than it could have been with one or more edition resets. Indeed, there are plenty of examples out there of more modern games doing what CoC is ostensibly designed to do far better than CoC does. And I for one am on the side of art. I will always favor the move that results in a better designed game over the one that makes some dude in a suit’s imaginary numbers go up a little higher.
To be fair, it is realistic to have every one of those skills be separate. I heartily object to the bald claim of being outdated. It's just preference on your part. You prefer other ways of handling skills.
 

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