Does D&D combat break the fantasy?

[mr.brown]

the reason for all of these flaws is because it is a game. i real live there is no way a human could have a 18 str. mabye a 13 but thats it. same with all other abilities. in D&D you are adventurers and are super natural for just that ability not every one can adventure. i mean if you really think about it nothing really makes that much sense. do you know how amny times i have been killed and resurrected or knocked out to -6 but been healed and then kept on going. i real life if i were killed and resurrected (and this goes for everyone) i would start reconsidering my carrier and become a baker or some other occupation were people dont try to kill me for any random reason. another thing(this is my last) is that if i got to 5th level in real life i would quit adventuring becuase no body i a hundred miles could really beat me i could destroy an entire town if i felt so inclined. i guess my point is that this is a game and not many things really make a ton of sense.

 

[zorlag]

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Another instant-kill tool that is often forgotten is poison, preferable inflicting Con damage. Damage from attack + possible Con drain (which causes even more damage indirectly) takes guards down pretty quickly. Sleep poison also works pretty well.

Z.

 

[LostSoul]

What you want to do in D&D to reflect this feel is lower the levels of the guards to regular 1st level Warriors. With 4 Hit Points, a Sneak Attack or good Damage roll from a bow will take them down in one hit.

edit: I think that, if you want to keep the suspension of disbelief in the campaign when you get to higher levels - and 1st level Warriors become no challenge at all - you should lower PC advancement at around 4th level. If you keep the PCs limited to mid-levels, and their opponents as well, you don't have to face the problem that I've seen in computer games - as the PCs increase in level, rank and file guards suddenly have the same power level as the "Big Bosses" did early on in the game.

Your other option is to trade in D&D's Hit Point system for something grittier. The thing to consider, if you go this way, is that the PCs are going to be much more vulnerable - that same arrow shot could kill a PC in one hit.

 

[Dr. Strangemonkey]

Mmmm, Mooks....

As for not being able to sneak in and kill guards in what not, I'm of the school of thought that many DM's don't use enought "mooks". You can have plenty of challenging opponents, but in spots like the guards at the door, I think npc's that are meant to be easily disposed of actually increase the verisimilitude of the game.

mook pie
mook gumbo
mooks in marinara sauce
mook cocktails
mook stew
mook salad
deep fat fried mook
braised mook
grilled mook
mook-kebobs
mook-b-que
mooks on pizza
stuffed mooks
mooks wrapped in bacon
chocalate covered mooks
mook soufle
mook quiche
mook-whiches
mook shakes
mook-ritos
mook tacos
mook enchiladas
boiled mook
mooks on a stick
breaded mook
corned mook
mook flameado
mook and chips

Nobody ever accused big daddy Strangemonkey of not including mooks at the gaming table.

 

[Zappo]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Does D&D combat break the fantasy?

Really? Where is that rule. I thought it just stabilizes you but you can still be negative -- i.e. if you are at -5 and dying (losing an additional hp per round) and get cure minor you are at -4 and incapacitated but no longer dying.

I checked and I was wrong, sorry.

 

[The Cardinal]

...that's why all my players (12-16, age 19-36, 75% female, 30-40% with martial arts experience) tend to prefer GURPS for their fantasy.

 

[Quinn]

As mentioned, the system doesn't support insta-kills unless the DM places schlubs with 4 hit points as the guards. Not that that isn't a good solution. The problem with creating an insta-kill rule in D&D is then the DM is left with the problem of having a rule that could also be used against the PC's, if he were playing the enemy NPC's effectively. Would you like to be sniped by some 4th level fighter with a longbow and brought down with one shot?

 

[Psion]

For example, my party (3rd lvl) had the task of breaking into a guarded mansion to obtain a magic potion. We snuck around to the rear of the place and spotted two guards by a rear door. In real life, the party would have probably tried sniping at the guards with crossbows- shoot them in the throat and they die silently. Unfortunately, nothing in the rules support this option. As the guards were all 3-4 lvl fighters, there is no chance to kill one with a single shot and not have him raise the alarm.

I think your expectations are to blame here.

If the DM had meant the guards to fold over like a house of cards like you were hoping for, he would have made them 1st level warriors, not 3rd-4th level fighters. As a 3rd level party, they were intended to be your equals or superiors, seasoned vetrans that don't easily fall for such ruses. Had the system operated like you had intended, the implication would be that the system is way too deadly, which more assuredly would have been "NOT FANTASY" than the existing system.

 

[hammymchamham]

Those gaurds should have taken those PC's out in one round. But thats just MO

 

[scarymonkey]

As mentioned, the system doesn't support insta-kills unless the DM places schlubs with 4 hit points as the guards. Not that that isn't a good solution. The problem with creating an insta-kill rule in D&D is then the DM is left with the problem of having a rule that could also be used against the PC's, if he were playing the enemy NPC's effectively. Would you like to be sniped by some 4th level fighter with a longbow and brought down with one shot?

Its just this sort of thinking that causes unrealistic actions to occur in the game. If someone had the drop on you with a crossbow and you knew he would shoot you before you could possibly get to him, would you attack him? But in the game, you would probably attack without too much concern as long as you have more than 10 hps. This metagame thinking is due to the lack of an instakill threat in every combat.

Yes, this sort of thing could lead to more pc deaths. Or maybe it would encourage pc's to try other ways of overcoming obstacles rather than just trying to kill everybody.