Does Deathwatch see through Mirror Image?
- Thread starter Numion
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Hypersmurf
Moderatarrrrh...
Len said:
I'm not sold on invisibility; since the spell is sight-based, it might not let you tell anything about an invisible creature at all.
But for Mirror Image, as I read it, you look at a figment and either get no information at all (since it's not a creature), or 'neither alive nor dead' (if your DM considers figments to be creatures). You look at the real caster, and get a reading based on his hit points.
That's a fairly easy way to tell them apart, as far as I can tell.
-Hyp.
Len
Prodigal Member
The spell works on "each creature within the area", not "each creature that you can see". Do you really think that the first sentence is grounds enough to override that? If so, then we simply disagree. To me "the foul sight granted by the powers of unlife" is clearly fluff, and "each creature within the area" is a solid rule. "Foul sight" is a metaphor, like "second sight".
SRD:
Area: Cone-shaped emanation
Using the foul sight granted by the powers of unlife, you can determine the condition of creatures near death within the spell’s range. You instantly know whether each creature within the area is dead, fragile (alive and wounded, with 3 or fewer hit points left), fighting off death (alive with 4 or more hit points), undead, or neither alive nor dead (such as a construct).
The area is a cone, each creature is every one. Does anyone consider the figments from mirror image to be the same creature as you are? If there are 20 creatures in the area do you simply know that 10 are alive and 10 are fighting off death? or can you say, 'bob is alive, jill is alive, billy is fighting off death, susan is fighting off death...'?
Area: Cone-shaped emanation
Using the foul sight granted by the powers of unlife, you can determine the condition of creatures near death within the spell’s range. You instantly know whether each creature within the area is dead, fragile (alive and wounded, with 3 or fewer hit points left), fighting off death (alive with 4 or more hit points), undead, or neither alive nor dead (such as a construct).
The area is a cone, each creature is every one. Does anyone consider the figments from mirror image to be the same creature as you are? If there are 20 creatures in the area do you simply know that 10 are alive and 10 are fighting off death? or can you say, 'bob is alive, jill is alive, billy is fighting off death, susan is fighting off death...'?
I might be reaching here but I am gonna say no, DW does not pierce the MI spell. It would reveal to you that the mage is healthy, fragile, fighting off death, whatever but there is nothing in the DW spell description to indicate it would pin point the real mage. The specll description specifically says it works against spells that mimic death (such as feign death) but that is not what MI is doing. Indeed, a rather pedantic reading might be that the MI spell feign's life, not death, and so the images would radiate life to the sight provided by DW...
Marshall
First Post
Why in Gods green earth does it matter? Are you seriously telling me that someone would actually bother to prepare this spell? Its so narrow focused as to be nearly useless. When you could get some use out of it, ie low levels when 4hp is a still a meaningful chunk of your total, you are NOT going to have enough 1st level slots to be able to waste one on this spell. And at higher levels the difference between 0-3 and 4+ hp is moot and likely visible without using a spell to determine it!
And no it wouldn't pierce an MI spell, because as soon as you determine that that image is an image it slides thru another image or the caster and changes. MI is a shellgame with figments, DW wont make you any better at keeping up with it.
And its "sight" the way Skeletons and other undead "see"
And no it wouldn't pierce an MI spell, because as soon as you determine that that image is an image it slides thru another image or the caster and changes. MI is a shellgame with figments, DW wont make you any better at keeping up with it.
And its "sight" the way Skeletons and other undead "see"
Hypersmurf
Moderatarrrrh...
Marshall said:
Only when the caster moves.
Since you'd look at him on your own action, you'd know which was the right caster while you cast your own Finger of Death. It wouldn't be until his action - if he moved - that you'd lose track. And since your Deathwatch is still running, once he finished pulling the shell game... you'd still be able to see which was which.
-Hyp.
Lonely Tylenol
First Post
The spell description doesn't say it reveals to you the location of every creature you can perceive using the spell. Rather, it reveals that creature's status. So you know this:
Bob the wizard: fighting off death
Bob the wizard's rat familiar: fighting off death
Fred the fighter: dead
Joe the rogue: fighting off death
Harry your skeleton minion: undead
Shmendrick the invisible assassin: fighting off death
Actually, you won't get their names, but we can assume that you'll get some kind of index by which you can assign the status to its correct creature. You do not know where these creatures are, except that by deduction they must be in your cone. Perhaps you didn't know that Shmendrick was there, but now you do, because you know that he's alive. You don't know where Shmendrick is, nor do you know which image Bob is. You simply know that Bob is alive and so is Shmendrick. That's all.
...interesting to note that "full health" registers as "fighting off death" unless you read the spell as saying that it tells you nothing about unwounded creatures, in which case you might not even sense the unwounded Bob the wizard.
Bob the wizard: fighting off death
Bob the wizard's rat familiar: fighting off death
Fred the fighter: dead
Joe the rogue: fighting off death
Harry your skeleton minion: undead
Shmendrick the invisible assassin: fighting off death
Actually, you won't get their names, but we can assume that you'll get some kind of index by which you can assign the status to its correct creature. You do not know where these creatures are, except that by deduction they must be in your cone. Perhaps you didn't know that Shmendrick was there, but now you do, because you know that he's alive. You don't know where Shmendrick is, nor do you know which image Bob is. You simply know that Bob is alive and so is Shmendrick. That's all.
...interesting to note that "full health" registers as "fighting off death" unless you read the spell as saying that it tells you nothing about unwounded creatures, in which case you might not even sense the unwounded Bob the wizard.
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Poorly worded spell for sure, but I think everyone knows the intention of the spell. If you're going to take massive liberties with the wording of Death Watch, one could simple do the same and insist that the illusion doubles are ment to fool such magics
But you know that's not the intent of the spell. Trying to squeeze more juice out of an empty orange is just more trouble than it's worth.
But you know that's not the intent of the spell. Trying to squeeze more juice out of an empty orange is just more trouble than it's worth.
