Does defeating an NPC's cohort grant additional XP?

[Joshua Randall]

Last night, the PCs in my game defeated an NPC villain (11th level) and the villain's cohort (9th level). This NPC villain did have the Leadership feat.

Do the PCs get XP for just a CR 11 foe, or for a CR 11 foe and a CR 9 foe?

 

[RigaMortus2]

Last night, the PCs in my game defeated an NPC villain (11th level) and the villain's cohort (9th level). This NPC villain did have the Leadership feat.

Do the PCs get XP for just a CR 11 foe, or for a CR 11 foe and a CR 9 foe?

Since he has the feat, I would say no additional XP. The cohort would be technically considered a "class feature" (I use that term loosely). You wouldn't give extra XP for an NPC villain who had Power Attack or some other feat they could have in place of Leadership, would you? You wouldn't give extra XP for defeating a summoned monster or nature's ally, would you?


All MHO of course... But I am a mean DM, so...

 

[irdeggman]

No - it is the same as a summoned creature in this regard. It the benefit of a feat and hence part of the character's base CR itself.

 

[Infiniti2000]

It is not the same as a summoned creature. It is totally different. It may be the result of a feat, but the cohort is not the result of a spell. The PC's gain XP for defeating the cohort.

 

[Joshua Randall]

Can anyone point to any actual rules that support their contentions? (I couldn't find anything definitive.)

 

[lukelightning]

I see it this way: a cohort can earn experience, so you get experience for defeating one. You earn less experience if you have a cohort helping you (they get a 1/2 share), so they should be figured into EL and have CRs of their own.

Which leads me to a slight tangent: how come I never see BBEGs with the leadership feat? Shouldn't Zamfar the Wizard of Evil, who runs a cabal of sinister sorcerers, be forced to take the leadership feat to justify this?

 

[werk]

No - it is the same as a summoned creature in this regard. It the benefit of a feat and hence part of the character's base CR itself.

So if there were an orc warlord, CR18, with a 12th level orc general, 35 1st level orc barbarians, 3 2nd level orc clerics, 1 3rd level orc sorcerer, and 1 4th level something or other, would be CR18/EL18?

Using an online calculator it comes out at EL19 or 20, which is more inline with my thinking. If the cohort/followers are big enough, it may fudge the EL up a point or two. With the CR11 example in the OP, the calculator bumps it up to EL12.

Good luck finding a hard rule about how to calculate XP.

 

[Infiniti2000]

Can anyone point to any actual rules that support their contentions? (I couldn't find anything definitive.)

You need support to not grant XP. Otherwise, the cohort is a challenge defeated and thus XP should be awarded. It's much more analogous to the BBEG using a craft skill and some money to create a fancy trap. Do you award XP for the trap that was overcome? Of course.

I see it this way: a cohort can earn experience, so you get experience for defeating one. You earn less experience if you have a cohort helping you (they get a 1/2 share), so they should be figured into EL and have CRs of their own.

The cohort's XP does not take away from the party's XP. That's one of the bizarre things about cohorts.

Which leads me to a slight tangent: how come I never see BBEGs with the leadership feat? Shouldn't Zamfar the Wizard of Evil, who runs a cabal of sinister sorcerers, be forced to take the leadership feat to justify this?

You won't see it in my campaign because I don't allow Leadership. IMO, it's a stupid idea for a feat -- a really stupid one. Zamfar shouldn't be required to spend a feat to attract followers.

 

[Storm Raven]

I see it this way: a cohort can earn experience, so you get experience for defeating one. You earn less experience if you have a cohort helping you (they get a 1/2 share), so they should be figured into EL and have CRs of their own.

Not any more, they don't suck experience away from you. Here are the 3.5e rules concerning cohort advancement.

Cohorts earn XP as follows:

The cohort does not count as a party member when determining the party’s XP.

Divide the cohort’s level by the level of the PC with whom he or she is associated (the character with the Leadership feat who attracted the cohort).

Multiply this result by the total XP awarded to the PC and add that number of experience points to the cohort’s total.

If a cohort gains enough XP to bring it to a level one lower than the associated PC’s character level, the cohort does not gain the new level—its new XP total is 1 less than the amount needed attain the next level.

XP earned by a cohort is effectively "bonus" XP and does not cut into any amount that a PC would have earned from an encounter.

Which leads me to a slight tangent: how come I never see BBEGs with the leadership feat? Shouldn't Zamfar the Wizard of Evil, who runs a cabal of sinister sorcerers, be forced to take the leadership feat to justify this?

A cohort is someone attracted to a character with the Leadership feat out of personal loyalty. A BBEG who has an unswervingly loyal lackey to aid him should probably have the Leadership feat. A BBEG who has a bunch of minions in his cabal who serve out of self-interest, or a common desire to accomplish a goal, or for pay (or any other self-interested reason) does not need Leadership. On the other hand, he can never be sure of those minions' personal loyalty to him either.

 

[RigaMortus2]

Yeah, our group doesn't use Leadership feat either. I just think that it is understood, as a character grows in power and fame that people will start to want to follow him...