Does Metaplot ever work? Forked Thread: Greyhawk 4e

[Shemeska]

And you use these metaplots in your game? They benefitted games you ran/played in?

To an extent, usually as background things not directly linked in to the major campaign metaplot itself, but often tangential. For instance the Planescape metaplot relating to Rowan Darkwood and the Labyrinth Gem was an 800lb gorilla that kept popping up in the strangest places in my campaign, especially as it related to how those events had impacted Alisohn Nilesia, the once (and future) Factol of the Mercykillers.

Disclaimer to my views on metaplot that seems fair to state:
Keep in mind that I started playing well after a lot of that metaplot had already come out in full, and so it usually featured as backplot to my own slightly advanced timeline of the setting. FR's metaplot -such as you might care to call it that since it has become less metaplot and more sudden and retroactively introduced stuff like Abeir, etc- has introduced the Shades into my use of Toril, and I've worked some tiny bits involving FR's Shades and their return into the backplot of some campaign elements related to Toril. That said, the Spellplague, the death of Halaster, and other more recent cracks in the setting haven't been introduced into my games (even though my current game is set 100-150 years ahead of the "current" Planescape timeline, and so it'd be in line to use those new 4e FR events).

If certain bits of metaplot interest me and they're well written and constructive elements, I'll spin them into the campaign in one form or another, but usually not as part of the major campaign metaplot itself, but as supplemental bits or tangents. If I don't like them (see 4e Spellplague and all its massive changes -and rewrites- to FR's history) I won't use them.

 

[Fenes]

As far as RPG-setting novels go, I thought RA Salvatore's initial Icewind Dale trilogy took the right approach - the stakes were big to the protagonists, but didn't do any damage/major changes to the Realms for GMs. Plus the scope was similar to what you'd expect for a mid-level party in an actual RPG campaign. Many authors have 1st level characters transforming the universe - maybe acceptable in a regular fantasy novel, but a really bad idea in an RPG book sales line IMO.

The failings of authors - who don't get the system very often - are another problem. Even good authors often fail to understand why common fantasy tropes do not work with D&D, or don't understand the setting. If a reader is asking himself "Why don't they just go to a temple and revive/ask the victim" and similar questions then that's a sign of an author not getting D&D.

 

[S'mon]

If certain bits of metaplot interest me and they're well written and constructive elements, I'll spin them into the campaign in one form or another, but usually not as part of the major campaign metaplot itself, but as supplemental bits or tangents. If I don't like them (see 4e Spellplague and all its massive changes -and rewrites- to FR's history) I won't use them.

I'm seeing that this - use of active & thoughtful GM discretion - seems to be the key to successful incorporation of publisher metaplot into the plot of an ongoing campaign. I think that use of discretion is easier for some GMs than others. It's something I'm slowly learning after many years as a GM. My nadir - not a metaplot issue - was running the 3e scenario "Lost City of Gaxmoor" and using the cambion Heracules' stats exactly as written. Unfortunately he's a CR20+ magically empowered melee brute BBEG in a scenario for 10th level PCs... I lost - he killed - huge numbers of perfectly good PCs as they kept trying to take him down. Since then I've learned not to automatically accept what the writer gives me, but it's been a slow learning process.

 

[Mathew_Freeman]

I'm seeing that this - use of active & thoughtful GM discretion - seems to be the key to successful incorporation of publisher metaplot into the plot of an ongoing campaign. I think that use of discretion is easier for some GMs than others. It's something I'm slowly learning after many years as a GM. My nadir - not a metaplot issue - was running the 3e scenario "Lost City of Gaxmoor" and using the cambion Heracules' stats exactly as written. Unfortunately he's a CR20+ magically empowered melee brute BBEG in a scenario for 10th level PCs... I lost - he killed - huge numbers of perfectly good PCs as they kept trying to take him down. Since then I've learned not to automatically accept what the writer gives me, but it's been a slow learning process.

I remember playing in those games - the flipside of that was that once we did finally kill him it felt like a major victory and cheered us up immensely! But it was notable that we had to bring in another NPC to help us out and make it do-able.

As far as the metaplot goes, I tend to agree that it's an awful lot of work for the DM to keep their campaign 'up-to-date' if the background keeps changing.

I'd hope for a meta-plot that only affected small areas of a setting at a time - or, alternatively, a campaign setting where the intention to use a meta-plot was spelled out at the start with cheap 'updates' available so that the changes to the setting can be clearly flagged for all players and GMs.

 

[crash_beedo]

Wrath of the Immortals - this was a boxed set for Classic D&D (BECMI) - it embroiled the 'Known World' or Mystara in a worldwide war as rival gods, er 'Immortals' formed into factions and manipulated their priests and sponsored nations.

I personally thought it was the best meta-plot D&D product I've seen, it formed the backbone of numerous classic D&D campaigns I've run, and it does 'blow up the world' at the end of it. But I'd say opinion of the BECMI people seems very mixed, at best 50/50, on who uses Wrath in their Mystara games.

Now that I'm older, running 4E, doing homebrew - I like metaplots less and less and don't want to see them. I'm hoping WOTC sticks to their guns with the new settings (3 books and done) as that removes the need for metaplots; I'm hoping for the Greyhawk Reboot and can't say I liked the nuking of the Realms.

 

[S'mon]

I remember playing in those games - the flipside of that was that once we did finally kill him it felt like a major victory and cheered us up immensely! But it was notable that we had to bring in another NPC to help us out and make it do-able.

That's true, but he should really have been statted more like CR 14 given the scope of the scenario and its intended level range. On reflection the stats he had were more suitable for a Son of Graz'zt (eg Iuz) than the son of an ogre-mage and some two-bit daemoness. Plus the 3.5e change to Power Attack and his acquisition of various gear from dead PCs just made him ridiculously powerful. You did do well taking him down eventually, though.

 

[S'mon]

Wrath of the Immortals - this was a boxed set for Classic D&D (BECMI) - it embroiled the 'Known World' or Mystara in a worldwide war as rival gods, er 'Immortals' formed into factions and manipulated their priests and sponsored nations.

I personally thought it was the best meta-plot D&D product I've seen, it formed the backbone of numerous classic D&D campaigns I've run, and it does 'blow up the world' at the end of it. But I'd say opinion of the BECMI people seems very mixed, at best 50/50, on who uses Wrath in their Mystara games.

At the time Wrath came out my own Mystara campaign based mostly on 'Dawn of the Emperors' boxed set and the Northern Reaches Gazetteer was up to ca 1040 AC, with events obviously totally different than Wrath (IMC Alphatia was riven by civil war following the death of Eriadna, and eventually conquered by Thyatis!), so of course it was no use to me.

 

[Calico_Jack73]

I can think of an instance where the metaplot advance helped a setting...

Battletech

While I loved the original Succession Wars setting the introduction of the Clan Invasion was much needed and made for a much more interesting setting. I loved that there was no clear cut good vs. evil. Both the Inner Sphere Houses and the Clans thought that they were the saviors of humanity. There were an incredible number of novels released which furthered the metaplot but the scope was so huge that when playing Mechwarrior it never felt that the PCs couldn't be THE heroes of the campaign and I never felt that they were overshadowed by the NPCs and the Metaplot.

 

[AFGNCAAP]

To be brutally honest, I've typically gone for running homebrewed campaign settings over established settings due to issues of metaplot. Playing, OTOH, is another issue: it's more or less whether I enjoy that person's homebrew game or not over setting-specific (and metaplot-heavy) games they've run.

For example, from my personal experience, I've enjoyed playing Eberron over Forgotten Realms or Dragonlance. Eberron has a metaplot of its own, but nothing in scale of the Realms. Then again, I got tired of dealing with a plethora of drow, Spellfire wielders, saurials, thri-kreen, sinister mages, and the Trickster-kenders that always cropped up in the FR or DL games.

IMO, I think that a metaplot can work well as a good foundation for a game/setting, but can be a right awful pain as a script for future progression of that setting. The foundation is something a DM can work with & build on; a script is something a DM either needs to keep track of or compete with.

I can understand the need for changes in a game. However, FWIW, I think that FR dealt with its changes best by making the 100-year leap. There was just so much metaplot present that only advancing a handful of years really wouldn't have worked. What happened during the 100-year leap is up for debate, though.

Conversely, Greyhawk (IMO) may work well by regressing the timeline back to a "halcyon age" of the setting. Greyhawk doesn't really have the supplemental material (such as novels & the like) that establish big metaplot issues as settings like FR or DL do. Returning it to an earlier time may work best for the setting, and (hopefully) it'll help grab the interest of younger generations of gamers in the setting.

Eberron, I think, is currently in a "sweet spot"—it has a decent metaplot to provide opportunities for games, but not enough a monolithic metaplot that doom it to progress a certain way.

Dragonlance is going to be a tricky one, I think. It seems to be born & raised in metaplot, and its association with metaplot/novels is much, much stronger than in other settings (even FR, IMO). I think it may benefit from a timeline jump much as FR did, and future novels could work in the void between where the old edition ended & the new one begins, esp. with how world-shaking a lot of the DL novels & the like can be.

I can't say much about other D&D settings metaplot-wise (like Ravenloft, Planescape, Dark Sun, Spelljammer, etc.). However, IMO, they are really games & settings of the era they were introduced in (as full-blown campaign settings, that is)—the late 80's/90's. To me, they seem to have that aroma of trenchcoat & katana stuck on them—the trend of their time. Because of that, I can understand why they may get a "tip of the hat" from time to time in online material, but they may not get the full 2-hardcover book treatment like other D&D settings.

 

[S'mon]

To me, they seem to have that aroma of trenchcoat & katana stuck on them—the trend of their time.

LOL I know exactly what you mean. I've just been dealing with a classic "trenchcoat and katana" player straight out of 1997 - "I've spent the last 10 years playing World of Darkness", was his comment - and politely encouraging him to decide that my D&D campaign based on the works of CS Lewis & Tolkien was perhaps not the best place for him...

Edit: Although I don't think Spelljammer is a trenchcoat & katana setting as such. I think it's a bit older - late '80s?