Grazzt
Demon Lord
So has Microsoft. If they really wanted peeps to stop pirating Windows, they would've made it a lot more difficult to crack than they did.
Does piracy offer anything good? (aside from the bad)
- Thread starter FormerlyDickensC
- Start date
So has Microsoft. If they really wanted peeps to stop pirating Windows, they would've made it a lot more difficult to crack than they did.
File sharing does allow those want to get preview copies for free and all the advantages other posters have mentioned. It even has advantages for gamers who prefer to pay for their pdf's. They get cheaper and better updated products in the long run as publishers have try harder to keep their paying customers and that priceless feeling superior to all the pirates
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Microsoft also tends to look the other way at anything short of egregious abuse of free but legitimate Windows licenses (MSDN accounts and volume license keys), because they make enough sales to computer builders and the general market that it's not really worth caring, and it keeps basically everyone in the world using the latest versions of their software.
I live in Hungary. I am 32 years old. When I started to play roleplaying games a lot of people used photocopiers to pirate the game, since computers, scanners, etc weren't that common yet.
Yet, they started parties, other people wanted to try tha game, who got their copies. And they introduced more and more people to the game.
And soon it was a point where these fans made it profitable to publish RPGs and RPG related materials in Hungary.
With online piracy: A DM who pirates books can run games for players who pay for them, and without that DM those people might find it is hard to find a party. What is better? One person pirating the book or 5 players who stop playing and purchasing books due lack of a local DM?
Lets see a group of gamers. Sizeable groups. For them RPGs are important, part of their "identity" and for this reason they will buy what they can. With pirated PDFs they can buy more hardcopies. And when they buy more hardcopies they will also support their local gaming stores more, which can result in more local ads, events that promote the game...
People who play some RPG might be willing to download a PDF to see how it works AND buy the game later, even if they wouldn't pay for the game. If they would try a new game or a new edition this way that could help.
While we spoke about large scale piracy, lets see something small scale. You know some people from am MMORPG or other computer game who might be interested in trying D&D, but they don't want to spend a lot of money on a game that might be too complex, etc for them.
You run an online game wherethey can enjoy it with the recommended accessories, and when they need a rulebook, you send them your PDF to try it, but most of them will buy hardcopies later (better for reading, browsing).
It wasn't piracy that attracted the players, but without the piracy involved it wouldn't be possible.
Remathilis
Legend
There is also a key element of availability.
There are RPGs that are impossible to locate. Some cannot be reprinted because of license loss (DC Superheroes, WEG's d6) or the company no longer exists. Others are past editions with no support like WotC did. (Star Wars d20 pre-saga). Others are rare and expensive and thus impossible to find without exonerate time and money (the Chuhulu/Elric D&DG). Others still are regional RPGS that were never on sale in other areas of the world.
Piracy offers people an opportunity to find and use these RPGs without resorting to eBay, garage sales and high-priced importers. In some cases, it may be the ONLY way to acquire such material.
Now, more recent materials I can see as potential conflicts of interest (though there are people I know who download and eventually buy if they feel its a worthy purchase) but for those OOP titles and rarities, it can't be beat.
(Interestingly, its done a similar thing to music; allowing rare tracks and music from different parts of the world to gain a wider audience.)
There are RPGs that are impossible to locate. Some cannot be reprinted because of license loss (DC Superheroes, WEG's d6) or the company no longer exists. Others are past editions with no support like WotC did. (Star Wars d20 pre-saga). Others are rare and expensive and thus impossible to find without exonerate time and money (the Chuhulu/Elric D&DG). Others still are regional RPGS that were never on sale in other areas of the world.
Piracy offers people an opportunity to find and use these RPGs without resorting to eBay, garage sales and high-priced importers. In some cases, it may be the ONLY way to acquire such material.
Now, more recent materials I can see as potential conflicts of interest (though there are people I know who download and eventually buy if they feel its a worthy purchase) but for those OOP titles and rarities, it can't be beat.
(Interestingly, its done a similar thing to music; allowing rare tracks and music from different parts of the world to gain a wider audience.)
El Mahdi
Muad'Dib of the Anauroch
The Bad:
People who download pirated copies only, and do not spend any money to RPG companies for anything - no hardcopies or pdf's - as an alternative to buying hardcopies, but would buy hardcopies if pirated pdf's weren't available. BUT, how bad is this really? I would wager that the number of people who fall into this group is probably extremely small.
The Good:
People can download a pdf in order to read over and peruse the book. If they like it, they'll buy it (the hardcopy). I would also wager that the group of people who go pdf only (no hardcopies at all) are probably a small group also.
Pirated pdf's are a check on the industry for overpriced pdf's. Now some will argue that WotC has the right to price them at whatever value they want. I'd partly agree. WotC can set the price, customers set the value. If WotC pdf's were provided at a price equal to what customers believe their value is, more people would buy them than pirate them. The problem lies in getting this through the thick headed corporate mindset.
Until digital paper becomes a full reality and common, hardcopy books will remain the medium of choice, and pdf's an add-on for the book.
The Neutral:
Many people who download pirated copies would not have bought either the hardcopy or pdf anyways. Therefore, no loss of a certain customer.
No loss of a certain customer = no loss of revenue.
The Verdict:
I believe that piracy has almost no effect on hardcopy sales (and may even increase them slightly).
Piracy has significant impact on sale of overpriced pdf's, but little or no effect on sales of reasonably priced pdf's. This means a possible significant impact to publishers (if they overprice), but a benificial impact for customers.
So, mostly a neutral impact for publishers, but a good impact for customers.
People who download pirated copies only, and do not spend any money to RPG companies for anything - no hardcopies or pdf's - as an alternative to buying hardcopies, but would buy hardcopies if pirated pdf's weren't available. BUT, how bad is this really? I would wager that the number of people who fall into this group is probably extremely small.
The Good:
People can download a pdf in order to read over and peruse the book. If they like it, they'll buy it (the hardcopy). I would also wager that the group of people who go pdf only (no hardcopies at all) are probably a small group also.
Pirated pdf's are a check on the industry for overpriced pdf's. Now some will argue that WotC has the right to price them at whatever value they want. I'd partly agree. WotC can set the price, customers set the value. If WotC pdf's were provided at a price equal to what customers believe their value is, more people would buy them than pirate them. The problem lies in getting this through the thick headed corporate mindset.
Until digital paper becomes a full reality and common, hardcopy books will remain the medium of choice, and pdf's an add-on for the book.
The Neutral:
Many people who download pirated copies would not have bought either the hardcopy or pdf anyways. Therefore, no loss of a certain customer.
No loss of a certain customer = no loss of revenue.
The Verdict:
I believe that piracy has almost no effect on hardcopy sales (and may even increase them slightly).
Piracy has significant impact on sale of overpriced pdf's, but little or no effect on sales of reasonably priced pdf's. This means a possible significant impact to publishers (if they overprice), but a benificial impact for customers.
So, mostly a neutral impact for publishers, but a good impact for customers.
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Nifft
Penguin Herder
Right before the first 4e PDFs were leaked, I recall the internet being full of discussions about how terribly ripped off everyone felt that WotC was making all their books obsolete, and murdering their pet dog "Dragon Magazine", and generally being a mustache-twirling villain of the rudest persuasion. ("Money grubbing whoooooooooooooooores!!", while not entirely fair to the whiners, does capture their gist.)
The day after the PDFs leaked, the internet got kinda quiet.
Then, from about three days after the PDFs leaked until 4e was formally available, the internet was abuzz with discussion of how the 4e rules actually worked, and could be made to break. Basically, the 4e leak turned a large crowd of hostile -- possibly just posing hostile, but vocally hostile none the less -- folks who swore they'd never become customers, into vocal participants of the system.
The 4e PDFs turned boycott-proclaimers into word-of-mouth advertising.
I'd be very, very interested in seeing Amazon's pre-orders right before, during, and after the 4e PDF leaks. I suspect the PDFs served as amazingly good advertising, but only sales numbers can actually validate (or refute) my hypothesis.
Cheers, -- N
The day after the PDFs leaked, the internet got kinda quiet.
Then, from about three days after the PDFs leaked until 4e was formally available, the internet was abuzz with discussion of how the 4e rules actually worked, and could be made to break. Basically, the 4e leak turned a large crowd of hostile -- possibly just posing hostile, but vocally hostile none the less -- folks who swore they'd never become customers, into vocal participants of the system.
The 4e PDFs turned boycott-proclaimers into word-of-mouth advertising.
I'd be very, very interested in seeing Amazon's pre-orders right before, during, and after the 4e PDF leaks. I suspect the PDFs served as amazingly good advertising, but only sales numbers can actually validate (or refute) my hypothesis.
Cheers, -- N
Let me ask it differently.
If you would live a country where you pay a lot of money for a permission to make copies of copyrighted materials, and even with high profile filesharing sites the court says: copying and sharing with people is legal copying and not illegal. They say: You paid for a permission to do so, so it is allowed.
You know that they authorize such copying with an agency that sends money to publisher and ofreign agencies (and it is same as the extra fees from libraries etc) and authorizing such not for profit copying should b authorized this way in your country.
Is that enough to justify copying books to the friends?
Legally it can be.
But if we see: it is our hobby and we want to support it and we should be careful about what can threaten the future of our hobby and what can help? Suddenly the question is about: Do you expect more or less sales if you "pirate" the books?
But lets see from a different point: There are guys (like one of the defendants) who point to the above, and say what they did was legal and reasonable. The question is: Side with him? Side with WOTC? Side with anyone else?
If you see his piracy was both legal and benefical to the hobby we share, then you can side with him. If he is right and what he done is legal, but you find it harmful for your hobby, it is reasonable to dislike him anyway.
But lets add another thing to the picture. Would you seek for a solution where you pay fees to authorize copying? IF you find it better for all, you can decide you want it in USA and contact your favorite party to talk about this. If you find it bad: that is a different scenario
