Does Power attack's damage bonus apply to the Trample [Ex] ability?

[Deset Gled]

Similarly, using the "Damage your opponent" option in a grapple is not a melee damage roll, even though it does damage based on your unarmed strike damage.*

...

* - Note, a lot of people disagree with this, but we can leave that for a different thread, right?

That's exactly the point I was thinking of when I read the initial post.

Really, the question here is if the damage from Trample is a melee damage roll. This is the same dilemma that we see with grappling. Personally, I think it's more important to be consistent than anything else, so if you allow PA in a grappple, you should all PA with a Trample.

 

[UltimaGabe]

You don't need an attack roll to PA. You do however need a melee damage roll.

Says who? Is there a rules quote to back this up, or are you just making a generalized assumption?

 

[the Jester]

I rule that PA only applies when you're making an attack. Trample is not "making an attack", it's using a special ability.

 

[Deset Gled]

"You don't need an attack roll to PA. You do however need a melee damage roll."

Says who? Is there a rules quote to back this up, or are you just making a generalized assumption?

PA says "On your action, before making attack rolls for a round, you may choose to subtract a number from all melee attack rolls and add the same number to all melee damage rolls."

The rules do not explicitly say you need to make an attack to PA. According to one strict reading of this, I can use PA when I'm running, or casting a spell. As long as I decide to use PA before any attack rolls are made, it's perfectly legal. Meaningless, but legal. According to this rule, the only question in applying PA to Trample is whether or not Trample counts as a "melee damage roll".

An alternate reading of the rule, though, is that "before making attack rolls for a round" implies that an attack roll must be made during the round in order for PA to be used. Therefore, if you allow PA damage to be added to Trample (assuming it is melee damage), you could only do so if you made an attack roll at some other point in the round (say, during an AoO). The two problems with this reading of the rules are: 1) It can be impossible to know if you will make any attack rolls in a round or not. I can plan on making an attack, but may be stunned or otherwise unable to do so. Or I can plan on making an AoO, but one may never come up. And 2) It is an implicit requirement, not an explicit one, which leads to nothing but endless arguements and bickering.

 

[glass]

Says who? Is there a rules quote to back this up, or are you just making a generalized assumption?

Which bit are you querying?

That you don't need an attack roll? The feat doesn't say you do, so you don't.

Or that you do need a melee damage roll? That is what the damage adds to. You could declare that you were using PA and then not make a melee damage rolls (like if all your attacks miss), but you won't be adding any damage to anything else.


glass.

 

[zeroorez]

but you do take the penalty! all your attack rolls will be at (-your BAB) its not the Trampling creatures fault that the attack is an auto hit

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

No love for the Leap Attack Two-Handed Trample?

I agree with Patryn. I would say that if BAB is not involved, then BAB-dependent mechanics should probably be assumed to be a no-no.

 

[udalrich]

Are you allowed to power attack on a Coup de Grace? There's no attack roll, but I've never seen a game where it wasn't allowed.

It's also easy to think of instances where you would want to take the power attack penalty, even though you knew you weren't going to attack on your turn.

"I PA at -5 and ready an attack to interrupt the wizards casting".

"Knowing the Dread Blargleboom was going to attempt to rush past him through the door, escaping into the world to wreak havoc, Bob the Eldritch Knight power attacked for his full BAB and cast True Strike."

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Are you allowed to power attack on a Coup de Grace? There's no attack roll, but I've never seen a game where it wasn't allowed.

That depends on what you're using for your CDG. If you're using a longsword, then I might argue that you're making a melee damage roll.

If you're using a bow and arrow, then you're not.

 

[Deset Gled]

That depends on what you're using for your CDG. If you're using a longsword, then I might argue that you're making a melee damage roll.

If you're using a bow and arrow, then you're not.

You can't use a bow and arrow to CDG.

Coup de Grace: As a full-round action, you can use a melee weapon to deliver a coup de grace to a helpless opponent