D&D 5E Does/Should D&D Have the Player's Game Experience as a goal?

[Hussar]

/snip.

Do you think about players’ game play experience? Would D&D benefit from a more direct game play experience goal? Is this something you discuss with your players in session zero?

BTW - Those of you who have followed my posts over the years know the last thing I want to do is endorse one-wayism or disparage your table’s playstyle! These are just questions I have been thinking about lately. I always appreciate the discussions here. Many of you have influenced my game and the way I think about the rules.

I would love to see it happen. But I know that it would be suicidal for WotC to do so. 4e proves that.

Suggesting a play style will be seen as an attack. Doesn’t matter how it’s couched or what they actually say. Suggesting that DnD works best a certain way will result in massive overreaction from anyone not specifically included.

 

[ezo]

Yes, Player's Game Experience should definitely be a major factor in the game!

I can't tell you how many times I've had a player for a few months in a game and they still don't understand how the game works or the things their PC can do! It is really frustrating.

The other main DM in one of my groups has suggested a number of times that PCs shouldn't gain levels, players should. Once a player has shown competence with his character, then you can let the character level and the player have to manage more things for that PC.

 

[jgsugden]

I am really confused by this thread. Are we asking if a goal of the game we run should be to give the players a good experience? Or am I missing the point here?

D&D is an RPG - a role playing game. Characters are selected by players because they're something they want to enjoy playing. We should facilitate that fun. Whenever you are sharing an entertaining activity with friends we need to make sure everyone is getting the type of experience they want to have. It isn't just the DM that has this responsibility - it is everyone at the table. Have your fun, but don't step on the fun of others. Set up opportunities for everyone to have fun.

 

[Hussar]

@jgsugden there are many ways the game can presuppose goals though.

A game written with the presumption that all the players will engage in troupe play - such as was assumed in Adnd or B/E results in a very different presentation and assumptions.

Remove the notion of troupe play, with its assumed gaggle of npc hirelings and henchmen, and you get a very different game.

The difference really is that DnD has rarely been explicit about these assumptions and many players either ignored them or deliberately changed the assumptions.

Heck take the notion that gets brought up of “players do not call for skill checks”. I’ve recently changed my stance because my players absolutely insist on playing twenty questions before committing to an action.

Having never encountered this before I never quite understood why people were so adamant about playing 5e where players always state goals first.

Now? Now I’m really convinced why skills are presented that way in 5e.

But before? I argued up and down that the books were wrong.

 

[jgsugden]

@jgsugden there are many ways the game can presuppose goals though....

A game written with the presumption that all the players will engage in troupe play ... Heck take the notion that gets brought up of “players do not call for skill checks”...

I don't see what either of those statements has to do with the goal of the game being the player experience.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

"Does/Should D&D Have the Player's Game Experience as a goal?"

Yes. This shouldn't even need to be asked. That's literally what designing a game is about.

 

[Hussar]

I don't see what either of those statements has to do with the goal of the game being the player experience.

Because in both of those examples, the player’s experience in that particular system will be very different depending on which way you go.

Before you decide how to present the game to players those decisions have to be made.

 

[Oofta]

I'm with @jgsugden on this one. It's a game. A game meant to be enjoyed by the people at the table ... so of course the player game experience is a goal. This feels more like "Since I like this other game style I recently tried I'm going to call it focusing on player experience and imply D&D is bad at it."

Of course games, and GMs, focus on the player experience. It's a game, it's supposed to be fun and engaging so that people come back and play more. Are there different ways of doing that? Of course! Is D&D trying to give the DM and players tools to have a fun and engaging play? Yes! It's also more flexible in approach than some other games to customize your style to fit the desires of the people at the table.

Some games are very prescriptive on how to handle the majority of interactions of all types, putting more structure around things that in most editions of D&D are left to free play with some general guidelines. The edition that bucked this trend was 4E with the concept of skill challenges which, while an interesting concept was applied far too often to everything the PCs did. Eventually I started ignoring it almost completely. I occasionally use a more flexible version of the concept as a for things like complex traps or non combat encounters, but I don't want a mechanical resolution system outside of combat most of the time.

Now I'm the one rambling! I guess what I'm trying to say is that different games, different approaches will work better at focusing on the player experience for some people. That doesn't mean that D&D ignores it or that D&D's approach will be as engaging as other approaches for some people.

 

[Hussar]

@Imaro I have no idea where you are getting the idea of people poo pooing on DnD. Nothing you are saying here contradicts what I’ve said.

 

[Imaro]

@Imaro I have no idea where you are getting the idea of people poo pooing on DnD. Nothing you are saying here contradicts what I’ve said.

Uhmmm...huh? Did I comment in this thread?