Does the swordmage marking power suck?

[Zaran]

Ok, I'm running a game with swordmage. It was brought up that the swordmage's interrupt attack only triggers when their marked target hits a target other than the swordmage.

I have a player who thinks that this ability is no where near as good as other defender interrupt powers. He states that with other defenders allies can provoke oppurtunity attacks just so the defender can get in a free strike because the monster will usually jump at the oppurtunity for a free attack. He says that because the swordmage's mark has to hit that it's not worth pulling this tactic.

I believe that while the stated tactic isn't useful, the fact that the swordmage can basically do a fire-and-forget tactic (marking a foe and moving on to another until that marked foe hits an ally) is still useful.

What I am asking from you guys is this: Have you found this ability to be lacking in practice? Are there any tactics that you take advantage of that make up for the reduced usefulness of the interrupt part of their ability?

I've been trying to keep this generic to all 3 builds but the swordmage in the group is of the Aegis of Assault variety.

 

[Flipguarder]

the mark is good because in addition to hitting the target you get to teleport a good distance as an interrupt. Correct use of Aegis will result in your swordmage being wherever they need to be.

In addition to this, the swordmage already does a substantial amount of damage with it's powers.

the swordmage in my party does stupidly powerful things with his melee basic attack.

 

[mneme]

The question is incorrect. The Aegis of Assault and Aegis of Ensnaring both trigger "when the marked target makes an attack that does not include you as a target". Neither (unlike Aegis of Shielding, but Aegis of Sheilding has its own advantages) require that the marked target hit in order to do its thing.

Edit: wow, I just couldn't see the "if it hits" in the compendium. Weird.

Regardless, while the Swordmage mark has a few disadvantages (short range is a big problem; you should be able to increase the range more easily, plus they need to hit), it's also the hardest mark to avoid by far, as you can't necessarily attack the swordmage (who is off on another portion of the battlefield), it doesn't need to be maintained every round, and you can't avoid the mark by just running away.

So I'd say the assault swordmage is the -most- likely defender to get to make punishing attacks rather than have her class feature mostly serve to make the monsters attack her.

 

[Holy Bovine]

Ok, I'm running a game with swordmage. It was brought up that the swordmage's interrupt attack only triggers when their marked target hits a target other than the swordmage.

I have a player who thinks that this ability is no where near as good as other defender interrupt powers. He states that with other defenders allies can provoke oppurtunity attacks just so the defender can get in a free strike because the monster will usually jump at the oppurtunity for a free attack. He says that because the swordmage's mark has to hit that it's not worth pulling this tactic.

I believe that while the stated tactic isn't useful, the fact that the swordmage can basically do a fire-and-forget tactic (marking a foe and moving on to another until that marked foe hits an ally) is still useful.

What I am asking from you guys is this: Have you found this ability to be lacking in practice? Are there any tactics that you take advantage of that make up for the reduced usefulness of the interrupt part of their ability?

I've been trying to keep this generic to all 3 builds but the swordmage in the group is of the Aegis of Assault variety.

I couldn't disagree more with your player if I had an electronic disagreeing machine. The swordmage player in my group continually gets his free attack as he is usually 5-6 squares away from whoever he marks. The marked foe (99% of the time the biggest, baddest dude the party is fighting) has no choice but to attack someone else and, being the main bad guy of the encounter, almost always hits. Even if he doesn't the SM is off harassing controllers & artillery at the back of the enemy group and the main bad guy still has that -2 to hit (it is fun to note that, ime, when the bad guy misses it is often by just 1 or 2 points). The player I have is really 'into' the swordmage class and seems to have a fantastic grasp of its tactics and abilities. The fact the PC is so effective and only has 1 arm (yup - he lost an arm by choice when his dragonmark went haywire several months ago) is either a testament to the greatness of the class or the player or both.

 

[Prestidigitalis]

Speaking generically, there are three disadvantages to the Swordmage mark.

1. Very short range (2 squares)
2. Minor action to mark
3. Immediate action to use

No other defender mark carries all that baggage. Compared to those restrictions, the problem you describe doesn't bother me so much. In the case of the Shielding Swordmage, there really is no additional problem.

Actually, there is *one* problem, which is that I keep forgetting to remind my DM of the -2 penalty for the mark. Swordmage is definitely a "pay attention even when it isn't your turn" class.

 

[Zaran]

The question is incorrect. The Aegis of Assault and Aegis of Ensnaring both trigger "when the marked target makes an attack that does not include you as a target". Neither (unlike Aegis of Shielding, but Aegis of Sheilding has its own advantages) require that the marked target hit in order to do its thing.

I've read the power twice, once just this weekend on the compendium. It says the marked foe has to hit.

Effect: You mark the target. The target remains marked until you use this power against another target. If you mark other creatures using other powers, the target is still marked. A creature can be subject to only one mark at a time. A new mark supersedes a mark that was already in place.
If your marked target makes an attack that doesn’t include you as a target, it takes a –2 penalty to attack rolls. If that attack hits and the marked target is within 10 squares of you, you can use an immediate reaction to teleport to a square adjacent to the target and make a melee basic attack against it. If no unoccupied space exists adjacent to the target, you can’t use this immediate reaction.

 

[fba827]

My group has seen three swordmages (all shielding) in various parties over the life of my current gaming group. They'd seem to get in their marking bonus maybe every other round on average.

The fire and forget marking that you mention is the key - the primary tactic was usually: mark an enemy, move, then attack another enemy somewhat near by. In essence, he was covering two enemies at once (one by proximity as a threat the other by mark).

Whereas a fighter or warden or paladin had to usually engage/be near their marked target to have full effect from their marking - the swordmage has freedom of movement.

Besides, the swordmage has lots of other benefits that the other defenders don't have - stuff like variety of damage types (helps with vulnerable/resistances), teleport type actions, bursts, blasts, light armor, and so on - these are things not common among other defenders.

While my personal opinion will mean nothing to your own playgroup, of all the defenders, the swordmage is by far my favorite.

 

[BlackSeven]

I've found Swordmage to be, with the Aegis of Assault and Ensnaring, work much the same as every other defender. They have an interrupt when an enemy is attacked, with better range in many cases. For all defender classes but Paladin (who must be threatening the target at the end of their turn in order for it to stick), it is an immediate action, be it interrupt or reaction.

Where Swordmage is actually better than the others is with the Aegis of Shielding. In this way, the Swordmage is the truest of the defenders, the only defender ability where they actually prevent damage to an ally beyond the -2 penalty to the attack roll or getting lucky and dropping the enemy beforehand. From across the battlefield, they lower the damage of their marked target directly. No other class does this.

For the Assault and Ensnaring, the key to using the ability is to mark the target and the ditch them, forcing them to pursue you or trigger the ability. Marking and staying next to them just isn't as effective.

 

[Obryn]

IME, Shielding Swordmages are almost ridiculously good defenders. The Aegis of Shielding is basically the meanest thing you can do to a monster that doesn't require attack rolls or saving throws.

Assault Swordmages are a lot like crazy Fighters. The mark is very similar - except the swordmage can't control movement, but can teleport from 10 squares away, often into flanking.

Ensnaring, I'm still unsure about. I can't picture the tactics yet.

Anyway, if your swordmage is standing next to the target of his mark, he's doing it wrong. Their main perk is defending from a distance.

-O

 

[Herschel]

What Obryn said. Swordmage is my favorite class, hands-down.