Does the Tongues Spell Allow You to Read?

[Stormonu]

You misunderstood what I was saying, I think. Let me try it a different way.

Character under the effect of Tongues is called "Speaker."

Speaker says something to a group of four people, call them "Listener A, Listener B, Listener C," and "Listener D."

Listener A is from Rome, and is a native speaker of Latin.

Listener B is from southern Italy, and is a native speaker of Etruscan.

Listener C is from Athens, and is a native speaker of Greek.

Listener D is from Ashurbanipal, and is a native speaker of Persian.

Speaker says something in the unique "language" allowed him by the Tongues spell. He just speaks once, and thinks of the words in whatever language he likes (most likely his native one).

Listener A hears Latin, as if Speaker were using Latin to talk (even though he's not). Listener B hears Etruscan, as if Speaker were using Etruscan (even though he's not). Listener C hears Greek, as if Speaker were using Greek (even though he's not). Listener D hears Persian, as if Speaker were using Persian (even though he's not).

It's a really weird and subtle effect, not directly implied by the wording of the existing Tongues spell.

Actually, from my reading of Tongues, that's incorrect. The "Speaker" would be able to understand anything spoken to him in any of the languages mentioned above. However, when he addresses the four, if he wants someone to understand him, he'll have to chose one of the four languages to speak in - say Latin. The other three speakers will have to either puzzle out what he said or wait until he repeats it in their native language.

 

[Bloodspoor]

Actually, from my reading of Tongues, that's incorrect. The "Speaker" would be able to understand anything spoken to him in any of the languages mentioned above. However, when he addresses the four, if he wants someone to understand him, he'll have to chose one of the four languages to speak in - say Latin. The other three speakers will have to either puzzle out what he said or wait until he repeats it in their native language.

He was referring to the actual real life application of speaking in tongues while you're referring to the game's ruling on the spells. He's simply saying that the game is not accurate to life. The spell is a misnomer, nothing more.

 

[paradox42]

Folklore about real-life speaking in tongues, yes. I don't think the spell is a misnomer, just that that extra application seems to have been lost in translation. And it could be cool to put it back.

If the basic Tongues spell doesn't do it, then neither will the group version, since its rules text states "This spell functions like Tongues, except you divide the duration..." So no, it won't function any differently from basic Tongues.

Perhaps the weird "each listener hears a different language" effect would be better as a psionic power.

And, anybody who thought Cant was made up clearly never read any Planescape books during 2E. Those books were full of the stuff. Got rather annoying for me, actually.

 

[enrious]

Folklore about real-life speaking in tongues, yes. I don't think the spell is a misnomer, just that that extra application seems to have been lost in translation. And it could be cool to put it back.

If the basic Tongues spell doesn't do it, then neither will the group version, since its rules text states "This spell functions like Tongues, except you divide the duration..." So no, it won't function any differently from basic Tongues.

...

Which is why I said add in some campaign flavor. Honestly, what happens if you change the effect of the Tongues spell to work as you describe? Nothing bad and potentially a cool role playing hook.

Own your game, don't let it own you.

And, anybody who thought Cant was made up clearly never read any Planescape books during 2E. Those books were full of the stuff. Got rather annoying for me, actually.

I agree - I think a word here and there in a normal sentence isn't too bad though.

 

[paradox42]

Which is why I said add in some campaign flavor. Honestly, what happens if you change the effect of the Tongues spell to work as you describe? Nothing bad and potentially a cool role playing hook.

Own your game, don't let it own you.

Personal preference. When I have an idea that the game's official spells don't cover, I prefer to invent a new one rather than change the existing one. The question back in my first post on the subject suggested just that, actually, and it seems that people here mostly agree that the basic Tongues in the Core Rules does not do it. So, looks like I'll be adding another spell to my list of new ones (I've made quite a lot of spells, actually).

 

[enrious]

Personal preference. When I have an idea that the game's official spells don't cover, I prefer to invent a new one rather than change the existing one. The question back in my first post on the subject suggested just that, actually, and it seems that people here mostly agree that the basic Tongues in the Core Rules does not do it. So, looks like I'll be adding another spell to my list of new ones (I've made quite a lot of spells, actually).

Yep, whichever way you prefer for your campaign.

If you make a spell, please post it so we can mock i...I mean comment and steal it.

 

[Pliantreality]

Let me predicate this post with a caveat; anything I proffer here should be taken with a grain of salt. Preferably the kind which rival Betelgeuse in size and density.

Unless I'm very much mistaken, the spell name is a reference to the idiom 'Speaking in Tongues' which has been around awhile. That idiom is itself offspring from something called 'glossolalia' (god help me on spelling), which was a supposedly religious experience in which the speaker tapped into a sacred, universal language. Purportedly, to speak in tongues was to speak the fundamental language of heaven. Or something.

The idiom as we know it today - speaking in tongues as a byphrase for speaking gibberish - comes from the practical experience of watching someone supposedly speak in tongues. The priest would say the speaker was tapping into sacred language, but what actually came out... gibberish.

I'm by no means a scholar on all of the above, and would be very much surprised if I were remotely close to the mark. Nonetheless, a quick wikipedia wouldn't turn.

I would timidly tender that, if one accepts the name and inspiration, then the spirit (bugger all if I can aptly argue the letter) of the Tongues spell would - to my thinking - point towards a universal langauge. Were I to DM it, I would rule the subject of a Tongues spell able to speak and understand any language. Those spoken to would hear in their vernacular, and the speaker himself would percieve in their vernacular.

So. Yeah. Those are my two ha'pennies. Please don't hurt me.

 

[TheAuldGrump]

My homebrews have literally hundreds of languages, some are as close as Danish and Norwegian in our world, others share scant, if any, common roots. The major ones (and some minor) have names, others get names when they come up, and are then noted in the Book.

As an example - there are more than two dozen languages spoken by the orcs of the New World, some spoken by fewer than five hundred people.

I do keep Tongues and Comprehend Languages spells separated by what they translate. Of the two Tongues is both the most common and the most abused. Being personal a translator can use it for disinformation. Especially useful when there is no written language, as in the case of the many tribes of orcs.

*Translator casts Tongues.*

Orc: We of the Dirty River welcome a trade pact with the dwarfs of Northshore.

Translator: We of the Dirty River are curious as to the nature of your trade. We will consider a trade pact in return for an honorarium of 500 Guilder, to prepare for further trade.

Dwarf: It seems a reasonable fee for starting what should be a most profitable endeavor. We will put the funds in an account at Lindtbank. *Big smile.*

Translator: The Dwarfs of Northshore are happy to agree with your treaty, and have decided to give you a gift of 100 Guilder to help with this endeavor! They will have me bring you the gifted funds from Lindtbank on the morrow! *Big Smile.*

Orc: The Dwarfs of Northshore are both honorable and wise. Let it be so. *Big smle.*

*Handshake between orc and dwarf, happy with the deal.*

Neither the dwarf nor the orc would ever have realized that they were both snookered if a PC hadn't also cast Tongues. The PC informed both the dwarfs and the orcs of the translator's duplicity. The dwarfs even let the orcs keep the gold! The player was listening because he did not trust the orcs - who were completely innocent in this scheme.

*Big smiles, all around. *

The Auld Grump