Does the Twilight ability stack?

[DM-Rocco]

It's really a theoretical thing. I've been making a collection of NPCs for fun, and I've been toying with the idea of a warrior/sorcerer who may or may not eventually take Eldritch Knight.

But it got me thinking about "melee mages." There are plenty of spells which require melee touch attacks, or enhance weapons, etc. But with d4 HD, and a lowish dex, how can a mage stand up to being in the heart of melee? He obviously doesn't have the stamina, so he needs a high AC. At higher level, there's enough WBL gold floating around that you can pump up the AC through wondrous items, special materials, and rings.

But say you're 8th level. (4th level fighter/4th level mage) Your character wealth is 27,000gp. Even if you blow the entire thing on Bracers of Armor and a mithril shirt, that's still not going to get you very far. There are feats that will let you wear armor types without spell failure, but you have to already be "immune" to spell failure in light armor (like a bard or warmage). So essentially, you have to suck it up until you have the money to make your character concept work.

If you are one of "those" mages who likes to use touch attack spells, I suggest having you familair dieliver them, or better yet, hmm, what is that spell. I can't recall the name off the top of my head at the moment, but it allows you to deliever touch spells through it from as far away as 30 feet. There is also an ability under the Arch Mage that allows the same thing.

So, unless you plan on swinging a sword, do like the rest of us and stay out of combat

 

[Xath]

But why have so many touch spells or weapon augmentation spells if you need to cast another spell to deliver them at range? It's not as though melee touch spells are more powerful than ranged spells.

So what you're saying is that there is no way to make a lower level melee oriented mage who won't die every combat? It seems like this concept wouldn't be entirely unusual.

 

[Rystil Arden]

But why have so many touch spells or weapon augmentation spells if you need to cast another spell to deliver them at range? It's not as though melee touch spells are more powerful than ranged spells.

So what you're saying is that there is no way to make a lower level melee oriented mage who won't die every combat? It seems like this concept wouldn't be entirely unusual.

Actually, melee touch spells often are indeed more powerful than their ranged equivalents, using the melee requirements as a balancing factor. Otto's Irresistable Dance, for instance, would be pretty crazy at range. True Strike, even Quickened True Strike, is balanced based on the idea that a Mage won't be such a great attacker anyway. Heck, that's what makes Wraithstrike one of the most broken spells ever created.

Melee-oriented mages, or any mages really, suffer from the unplayably low d4 HD unless you have a Con bonus to go with it. They also suffer from the lack of armour, but this can be avoided through the careful purchase of small +armour items for fairly cheap prices and the casting of Mage Armour and Shield. If you want to keep it up, however, it is a good idea to go Ruathar to Eldritch Knight and maybe one level in Spellsword. You lose only 1 spellcasting level for the 1st in Eldritch Knight (avoiding fighter with Ruathar), putting your Wizard at the same playing field as a sorcerer--but with more HP than the sorcerer and more BAB than the cleric.

 

[DM-Rocco]

If you really want to play a melee mage, go for Duskmage. Full BAB, I think d8 hit points and you can channel spells stright to your weapon and cast spells while armored. At 17th level you can cast disentergrate and have it apply to all your attacks that round, pretty nice.

You get less spells to choose, but you get more of them to cast, sounds kind of fun really.

It's in the PHBII.

 

[DM-Rocco]

Also consider the battle caster variant rule for sorcerers from the Unearthed Arcana. You get slightly less spells to cast and know, but you gain cleric attacks, d8 hit points and the ability to cast while in armor, medium I think, which would cover any heavy armor made of mithril.

 

[Xath]

Also consider the battle caster variant rule for sorcerers from the Unearthed Arcana. You get slightly less spells to cast and know, but you gain cleric attacks, d8 hit points and the ability to cast while in armor, medium I think, which would cover any heavy armor made of mithril.

I forgot about all of that stuff. Thanks alot.

 

[Rystil Arden]

I forgot about all of that stuff. Thanks alot.

Yeah, the Duskblade really rocks. It is a well-thought-out, balanced class that fills this role nicely, if you have PHBII. The battle sorcerer, though it is in the SRD, is incredibly weak, but it is a passable second option at least to get you started right at level 1

 

[Nail]

named bonuses with the same name mostly don't stack. (dodge is the exception).

..and circumstance bonuses.

 

[Caspian]

Yeah, the Duskblade really rocks. It is a well-thought-out, balanced class that fills this role nicely, if you have PHBII. The battle sorcerer, though it is in the SRD, is incredibly weak, but it is a passable second option at least to get you started right at level 1

Hold on a second, why is the Battle Sorcerer a weak class?

 

[Rystil Arden]

Hold on a second, why is the Battle Sorcerer a weak class?

It is weak because all the things it gains are not extremely useful and could almost be given to the class for free (clerics already have that and more), and the sorcerer has to pay a terrible price for the opportunity--spells known are horrendously terrible. Sorcerers already don't know enough different spells, and with the loss of one per level, it is nigh unplayable: At levels 1 and 2, you only know 1 unique level 1 spell--just 1! It takes until level 7 to learn even 2 different level 2 spells. By then, the Wizard knows at least 2 level 4 spells and more if he is paying attention, and even the non-battle sorcerer has 2 level 3 spells available. Add onto this the loss of one spell per day, putting the Battle-Sorcerer on a level playing field with the Specialist Wizard and you see the problem.