Does this sound like an Über caster to you?

[Dannyalcatraz]

Does this sound like an Über caster to you?

To stop hijacking another thread: http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=184526&page=1&pp=40

2Ed Player’s Option Cleric based on Finno-Russian legends:

I found my PC notes on Arion Dragomir- my recollection of the PC was a bit off, but not by much.

Does this look like a powerful spellcaster to you?

Major Access (full 7 levels)
Clerical Spheres: All, Elemental Air, Guardian, Protection, Travelers;
Wizard School: Abjuration (only up to lvl 7- 2Ed Clerics didn’t have 8th or 9th
level spell slots)
Minor Access (up to 3rd level spells)
Clerical Spheres: Elemental Earth, Elemental Fire, Elemental Water, Healing, Plant,
Wards

Some have asked why Wizard Abjuration? Or more accurately, why discuss Wiz Abjuration in the 3.X conversion of this PC when Clerics have all the protection spells?

Despite protestations to the contrary, Clerics don’t have Protection from Arrows- it’s a Sorc/Wiz spell- or things like Globe of Invulnerability. Other spells are lower level for wizards than clerics. There were other 2Ed Protection that have simply disappeared.

OTOH, certain spells that are currently Abjurations were not in 2Ed- Shield, for instance, was an Evocation spell, Stoneskin was an Alteration spell.

Other spells this PC used have been removed from the Cleric list altogether, like Antiplant Shell, which is now exclusive to Druids.

His damage dealing spells? Strength of Stone (similar to Bull’s Strength), Fire Trap, Flame Blade, Heat/Chill Metal, Watery Fist, Blade Barrier.

Other issues-

So, when the party asks you to Turn Undead, you just refuse to?

You can. Though it would be I think showing a poor imagination to do so. Instead, you could sing:

<snip>

Which is how one other author who has some small amount of respect had his Kalevala inspired character turn undead. Or you could actually show a bit of creativity and sing your own cuplets.

Fine, except that it wouldn't be true to the original source material. I think its much more interesting for a holy man from this culture to be forced to deal with Undead within the strictures imagined by the original poets of the Kalevala & other sources.

Undeath would be an alien and repulsive concept to them, and unlike other PCs linked to the divine, they have no more power over them than most other PCs.

Well, that's easy to deal with for a bard - since you select your repertoire of spells from a list, you simply choose those that are not flashy, have a little healing, and a buffing. Let's see, for a 10th level bard you could select:
<snip>
There. No flashy spells. A little healing. A little buffing. Some movement stuff. That wasn't hard, despite your constant protestations.

And, as I said, not a bit of the Bard list covers the animist/elemental magic so common in these legends. This PC isn't talking to the 4 winds or the spirit of the road or the mountain.

1) The core set of spells for this PC- protective spells- are almost entirely absent from the spell-lists of those 2 classes.

Which protective spells do you think they need? Alarm? Barkskin? Blur? Dispel Magic? Displacement? Invisibility? Protection from Energy? Resist Energy? Because, you know, those are all on the bard and ranger lists.

Of the ones you listed, Alarm, Barkskin and Dispel Magic were on his list of spells. Protection from Energy was broken up into several spells. Blur & Invisibility were illusion spells- not available. He could get rid of it with Invisibility Purge

As noted above, it was things like Antiplant Shell, Protection from Arrows and Globe of Invulnerabilty that he was casting to protect his party. Also on the list would have been Protection from ____ 10' Radius type spells- the 2Ed analogs of Magic Circle against _______- which are not on either the Bard or Ranger list. Occasionally, he'd cast Remove Paralysis or Spell Immunity.

There were also aspects where he'd be worse off under the old rules than the new- instead of Neutralize Poison, he could only Slow or Hold the poison.

I mentioned in the other thread that the Travelers domain is conceptually a good match, but it is radically altered from its 2Ed counterpart. Gone are spells like Create Campsite, Know Customs, Lighten Load or Hovering Road, replaced with more powerful spells like Fly, Dimension Door, and Teleport.

 

[Nifft]

Everyone knows Finno-Russians are broken.
My furry hat of d02 ... nah, never mind.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Sejs]

Then enlighten us- in 3.X, how would you do it? (By that, I mean both build the PC AND describe a PC concept built on a Kalevala-esque heroic archetype.)

How about a Ranger (2 or 3) / Divine or Savage Bard (7 or 8) / Sublime Chord (10)?

You'd have to modify the sublime chord a tad, but it would seem a reasonable fit. The biggest miss would be that the warrioring is a bit less than mighty due to the SC's poor BAB, but it does a decent job hitting the other major salient points.

 

[Darklone]

Well. Complete Adventurer has exactly what you want and the class description even tells you:

FOCHLUCAN LYRIST.

Bard/Druid Multiclass with full BAB, d6 hitpoints, 6+ skillpoints per level, full spellcasting progression for both classes, full bardic music progression.

And it' still a little underpowered

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

While your suggestions have merit, part of the challenge levied in the other thread was that any PC concept is doable by the 3.X Core rules as written. That by itself would bar the Bard variants you list.

My particular problem was even more pronounced- the DMs I play under use very few optional rules, and (as yet) no base class or PrCl outside of the Core, and are generally unwilling to tweek a class to fit a concept.

I will, however, keep those in mind should the restraints be relaxed!

 

[Felix]

While your suggestions have merit, part of the challenge levied in the other thread was that any PC concept is doable by the 3.X Core rules as written. That by itself would bar the Bard variants you list.

A Finno-Russian priest is possible in 3e; he might not have all the special powers and abilities you want him to have, but the character certainly can be designed.

I still think the witch spell list for sorcerers found in the DMG fits your concept the best as a single classed character.

 

[Thanee]

While your suggestions have merit, part of the challenge levied in the other thread was that any PC concept is doable by the 3.X Core rules as written.

The concept is doable... just use a standard cleric or a wiz3/clrX multiclass.

It's impossible to make a 100%-match, of course, you need to play with the same rules for that.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

A Finno-Russian priest is possible in 3e; he might not have all the special powers and abilities you want him to have, but the character certainly can be designed.

I still think the witch spell list for sorcerers found in the DMG fits your concept the best as a single classed character.

Like I said in the other thread- the witch's list is an alternative rule that hasn't been allowed in any campaign run by these guys since 3.X came out.

Yes, I can build 3.X PCs and call them Finno-Russian priests, but the 3.X versions (core, at least) will always have areas where it is powerful where the 2Ed version or source material is weak (Undead, for example) or weak where the 2Ed version or source material is powerful (direct contact with the spirits of the natural world).

IOW, the flavor will be just a bit off.

Take the pure Sorc build you suggested: Even with the Core list, I could tone down the spellpower by concentrating on things like Abjuration, Divination and Enchantment with a smattering of Conjuration (the summon set) or Transmutation (buff) spells. One Feat would probably be burned on a Martial or Exotic Weapon unless the PC stuck to Spear (a reasonable sacrifice). He would be charismatic.

However, the PC would be deaf to the "spirits of the 4 winds" or the mountain, etc. - spells that mimic those effects are almost exclusively Clerical/Druidic. The PC would also experience ASF when casting- nearly every Finno-Russian hero I can find has leather or studded leather, and some dress in armor as heavy as chainmail. Most used shields as well.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

The concept is doable... just use a standard cleric or a wiz3/clrX multiclass.

Strong points:

1) Air Domain is a good fit, as is Luck.

Problems with that build include:

1) Power over the Undead- alien to the source material.

2) Still has ASF problems.

3) Lacks the protection spells of the original.

 

[VirgilCaine]

The PC would also experience ASF when casting- nearly every Finno-Russian hero I can find has leather or studded leather, and some dress in armor as heavy as chainmail. Most used shields as well.

If you're at or below 20% ASF, IMO, you're taking a fair risk. You might get burned occasionally, but turn it around and you're at an 80% success rate. Take full advantage of magic armor abilities instead of vanilla pluses, if the special abilities would help you.

I say go with the Fochluchan Lyrist. Closest thing you're probably going to find.