spelling correction
How much Russian and Finnish mythology have you really read?
Fair question. I do not claim to be an expert & the PC was built solely on my personal exposure- nobody else in my group is familiar with anything beyond the typical Norse/Greco-Roman/Egyptian mythologies.
I've read the Kalevala, as well as Larousse's Encyclopedia of Mythology's entries on the myths of Finland, Lapland, Russia & the Slavic lands. While the info in the Larousse is broad, it is neccessarily shallow- while it may record that a warrior retrieved a weapon that enabled him to defeat an ogre, it may not reveal that he had to change shape to recover that weapon. (
http://www.amazon.com/Larousse-Encyclopedia-Mythology-Robert-Graves/dp/0517004046 )
I've also seen a half dozen (dubbed) Finnish movies based upon the Kalevala (they are what drove me to read the book) and a couple of (subtitled) Russian movies based on their legends. IMHO, they're similar in accuracy to
The Ten Commandments treatment of the story of Moses- hit the high points, fiddle with the details, and look good while doing it. I also picked up (a little) more on Russian legends from visiting some museums in Moscow and St. Petersburg.
Despite your accusations, I did not come up with a list of abilities and retrodesign a concept- had I not read the Kalevala and Larousse & seen those movies, I would have been playing something entirely different.
Besides that, I'd argue that any attempt to model an RPG PC on a heroic archetype from someone else's work- be it mythology or a novel- it will perforce be done through the filter of that person's perceptions. My Finno-Russian priest PC concept differs from yours potentially as much as yours would from one done by an ancient Finn apported to modern times.
If you have indeed read more of the stuff (and more recently), I can see how your concept would differ from mine- including in terms of accuracy.
Just because an artist persists in depicting Vikings with horned helmets doesn't mean he's trying to deceive people about their armor- he may genuinely not be aware that their helmets didn't have such accoutrements.
But to sit there and impugn my integrity as a gamer? You don't know me.
Re: Blade Barrier-
That spell was part of the Guardian Sphere.
The PC's entire list of 6th level spell options are (in order of the list of Spheres listed): Speak With Monsters, Whirlwind, Blade Barrier, Forbiddance, Antianimal Shell, Monster Mount, Invulnerability to Magical Weapons & Repulsion. If I exercised the restraint people aparently think I lack, I need never take Blade Barrier. In fact, spells like Invulnerability to Magic Weapons, Monster Mount (summons 10HD total of creatures to ride), Antianimal Shell, and Repulsion would be higher on the list than Blade Barrier.
In 2Ed, Major access to any other Clerical sphere the PC already had minor access to had one or more anti-thematic or big damage spells- Tsunami, Firestorm, Earthquake, Crushing Walls, Tentacle Walls, Undead Ward, Dragon Bane, etc.
The one that didn't was Plants, which would have given Wall of Thorns (less damage per round, but much a much thicker barrier that lasts much longer (turns instead of rounds). However, that was a much bigger and more powerful Sphere. To get the points for THAT, the PC would have to drop Guardian altogether, AND I'd have had to convince the DM to grant me Major Access to a Sphere that was the forte of Druids. It also would meant the PC was protecting himself more and the party less.
Taking the similarly powerful & similarly priced Animal Sphere would have introduced problem spells like Summon Insects, Giant Insect, Creeping Doom and Reincarnate.
I could have kept access to the Guardian Sphere to Minor or dropped it altogether, losing spells like Light/Darkness (and the Continual versions), Glyph of Warding, Dispel Evil/Good, and Abjure.
With those points, I could have added another Sphere, like War, Time, Astral or something else inappropriate. Other options in the same point range were decreasing casting times, gaining followers, being immune to charm, adding to the PC's weapon list and the like.
In that light, one antithematic spell was no big deal, especially, as I pointed out, I didn't have to choose it.
Re: Bard-
As an arcane caster, it lacks the connection to the spiritual or divine. While that may not matter in a campaign where that line is handwaved away, that simply isn't an option with my DMs.
If I want a PC that has full priestly duties and functions- which I did- the PC has to be a divine caster of some kind.
Re: Clerics & Undead-
The 3Ed system has the Domain system for clerics, which, while elegant, does force certain things upon a
The only mention of spirits of the unliving of which I am aware is in reference to talking to spirits in Tuonela...but it was just talking, like when Orpheus went to Hades to bargain for the return of his love. AFAIK, those spirits never left Tuonela- there was no physical interaction or risk of them slaying you.
This, coupled with the way the heroes addressed natural spirits led to my comment in the other thread which mentioned the OA Shaman (and, as I recall, the KoK Shaman) does
precisely this. Of course THAT class would be inappropriate for this PC on so many levels. And (of course) neither one is Core.
So, yes, with my knowledge of Finno-Russian legends, I don't see Turning Undead as appropriate.
And, unlike the Blade Barrier spell, its an inherent part of the cleric class. To have the power and not use when it is
needed will tend to cause conflict at the table- especially if someone else's PC dies because of it.
Heck, a DM could even consider that non-use as an event that has impact upon a PC's alignment.
Re: Druids & Shapechange-
The original 2Ed ones had a lot of quasi-Celtic stuff, including advancement by combat for anything beyond 11th, so I dismissed that class.
Like I said in the other thread, I simply don't have any recollection of any shapeshifting beyond simple illusory effects similar to those achievable with Alter Self, but I haven't read the Kalevala since 1996 (the same year the Player's Option books came out). Its completely absent in the Finnish & Russian movies (though I recall a scene in which one hero "Enlarged"- though its unclear as to whether that was allegory or not). There was also little mention of it in the heroes mentioned in Larousse, so I figured it was pretty rare..
Combine that with the advancement by combat thing above, and I probably didn't even consider the Druid when attempting a 3Ed version of the PC.
If its true that there is more powerful shapeshifting than I recall in the Kalevala- my bad.
Re: The as yet unmentioned 2Ed Shaman in Player's Option
It exists.
It has the spirit mechanics that show up in the OA Shaman (communicating with and getting spells from Spirits of the Dead, Animals, and Nature), and as long as the PC never performed the rites to take on any more than a Minor Spirit of the Dead, there wouldn't have been a problem with anti-thematic things like raising the dead. A Minor spirit could provide things like augury, feign death, prayer or speak with dead- similar to the level of communication with those in Tuonela.
It has almost the same spell list as the PC I described above, with some slightly different Major Spheres, and fewer Minor Spheres. The weapon selection would not have changed, nor would the armor. I can't find a THAC0 or HD for the class, but it probably falls under the general 2Ed rule that all Priests use a D8 and have the same THAC0. (The Crusader differs in some regard, but lists its exceptions explicitly.)
Its listed as using all of its Player's Option points, its major differences:
1) It has Turning Undead as the priest (which I subbed for the the cheaper Inspire/Enrage Allies)
2) It does not have Wizardly Abjuration.
I honestly have no idea why I didn't use it- it would have saved me time in creating the original PC.
If nothing else, I could have use the class as written, just subbing out the Turn Undead for other spells or something.
(Closer read of the class reveals access to the Creeping Doom spell from the Animal Sphere and the access to the Summoning Sphere may have factored into it...)
