D&D 5E Does "Unarmoured Defense" work with Druids who are shapechanged?

[ECMO3]

Just wondering. I thought a one level dip for a Moon Druid into Monk might be a pretty decent way to increase the effectiveness of the animal forms.

This is debatable, but if allowed you would need to use the actual Beast's dexterity, not the Monk's dexterity since that stat is changed to match the Beast. So the AC would be the Beast dexterity plus the Monk Wisdom.

Further due to the way it is worded, unarmored defense is not an option a Monk can turn on and off, so if it applies in beast form you can't decide to use the beast's natural AC if that is higher.

 

[James Gasik]

This is debatable, but if allowed you would need to use the actual Beast's dexterity, not the Monk's dexterity since that stat is changed to match the Beast. So the AC would be the Beast dexterity plus the Monk Wisdom.

Further due to the way it is worded, unarmored defense is not an option a Monk can turn on and off, so if it applies in beast form you can't decide to use the beast's natural AC if that is higher.

I would question however, if the Monk ability actually works that way. Would you say a Tortle Monk cannot benefit from their natural AC 17 at low levels? And what would happen if someone were a Barbarian/Monk?

 

[jgsugden]

...Further due to the way it is worded, unarmored defense is not an option a Monk can turn on and off, so if it applies in beast form you can't decide to use the beast's natural AC if that is higher.

If you know you'll be taking a wildshape and want to avoid this, wearing anything the new form can accomodate that is considered armor would negate the unarmored defense. That would likely be up to a DM.

However, from a practical perspective, the high AC animals forms are usually only selected in order to obtain a high AC, and you'll be better off being a Giant Spider or a Giant Elk with a 16 Dex that combines with your 16 or 18 wisdom for a really good AC...

 

[Paul Farquhar]

I would question however, if the Monk ability actually works that way. Would you say a Tortle Monk cannot benefit from their natural AC 17 at low levels? And what would happen if someone were a Barbarian/Monk?

The rules are perfectly clear on and unambiguous on tortle monks: you choose which to use, they never stack.

As for multiclass barbarian/monks on page 163 the PHB states "Unarmored Defense: If you already have the Unarmored Defense feature, you can't gain it again from another class."

 

[James Gasik]

The rules are perfectly clear on and unambiguous on tortle monks: you choose which to use, they never stack.

As for multiclass barbarian/monks on page 163 the PHB states "Unarmored Defense: If you already have the Unarmored Defense feature, you can't gain it again from another class."

I was simply replying to ECMO's statement that you can't turn Unarmored Defense off, and always have to use it.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

I was simply replying to ECMO's statement that you can't turn Unarmored Defense off, and always have to use it.

I didn't notice that.

Clearly, you never have to use unarmoured defense. Normally you use whichever is best (although you don't have to!) And tortle natural armor does not count as "wearing armor" so does not interfere with other monk abilities.

But a barbarian/monk does not have a choice, they only have the version of unarmored defense that comes with their first class.

 

[Sorcerers Apprentice]

Things that are good with monk unarmoured defence are actually quite small and frail, like flying snakes.

Giant Apes and Huge Giant Crabs are pretty good for a barbarian multiclass though.

Monk unarmored defense seems like it's superior for wildshape in nearly every case, since it keys off the Druid's WIS, which should be consistently high, rather than the beast's CON, which is variable and often not that great even for big and tough beasts. The main limitation for getting the most out for wildshape UA is that a lot of beasts have rather weak DEX, and that affects both kinds of unarmored defense equally.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Monk unarmored defense seems like it's superior for wildshape in nearly every case, since it keys off the Druid's WIS, which should be consistently high, rather than the beast's CON, which is variable and often not that great even for big and tough beasts.

Most beasts have lousy dexterity, so their natural AC is better than monk AC.

The main limitation for getting the most out for wildshape UA is that a lot of beasts have rather weak DEX, and that affects both kinds of unarmored defense equally.

Hence the giant ape and huge giant crab, which have high CON.

 

[Sorcerers Apprentice]

Most beasts have lousy dexterity, so their natural AC is better than monk AC.

Natural AC is often bad as well. Low DEX plus 3, 4 or 5 from the druid's WIS is usually better. Even seemingly armored beasts like the Giant Crab only has AC 15.

Hence the giant ape and huge giant crab, which have high CON.

But both of them have lower or equal CON than the +5 WIS we can expect from a high level druid. Beast DEX is the big limitation regardless of what unarmored defense the Druid is using. Unless our Druid has dumped WIS for some reason, Monk unarmored defense will be equal or better than Barbarian when using wildshape.

Not that giant apes and huge giant crabs are likely wildshape targets anyway, you'd have to be a 21 or 24 level moon druid respectively to wildshape into one of them.

 

[James Gasik]

Yeah, the only reason Giant Apes are even noteworthy is because of Polymorph and the lack of good high CR Beasts.