D&D (2024) Does WotC view the Monk class as overtuned from their perspective?

[UngeheuerLich]

I mean thats kinda what the rest variant rules are for, those are literally just examples of the types of rules one can create, i remember it even saying this.

Exactly.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

That would be neat, like a mini-quivering palm.

Yeah! I’d definitely make it not have to be unarmed in my own monk rewrite, but if the monk must be locked in to being a puncher, so be it.

 

[Staffan]

Man the monk should have the ability to hit someone, and make it so that if they move they take more damage.

TBH the Monk's main upgrade to Unarmed Strike should be to do extra stuff with it.

I think it would be cool if monks had a small repertoire of moves they could do that inflict some form of debuff along with their unarmed attacks. The main issue with doing that is that it's real easy for there to be one move that's better than the others and spam that repeatedly – e.g. the Stunning Strike conundrum in the thread's opening post.

You know what's a great way of giving PCs cool things to do without letting them spam them every round? Encounter powers!

 

[Gammadoodler]

I think it would be cool if monks had a small repertoire of moves they could do that inflict some form of debuff along with their unarmed attacks. The main issue with doing that is that it's real easy for there to be one move that's better than the others and spam that repeatedly – e.g. the Stunning Strike conundrum in the thread's opening post.

You know what's a great way of giving PCs cool things to do without letting them spam them every round? Encounter powers!

I mean really if they just connected the dots from unarmed strikes to weapon masteries, I think they would cover a lot of that ground.

It would eat a bit into open hand's niche, but maybe they could just give open hand some enhancements to the weapon masteries, or ways of using multiple at once.

The groundwork is all there already. They just need to like...use it.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I think it would be cool if monks had a small repertoire of moves they could do that inflict some form of debuff along with their unarmed attacks. The main issue with doing that is that it's real easy for there to be one move that's better than the others and spam that repeatedly – e.g. the Stunning Strike conundrum in the thread's opening post.

You know what's a great way of giving PCs cool things to do without letting them spam them every round? Encounter powers!

Eh, better way IMO is to say that a creature has advantage against the move for the rest of the fight once they’ve been hit by it, or is immune for a round.

But frankly, I see what you describe as a phantom problem. In play, people use the move that fits what’s going on, not what is most powerful.

 

[Remathilis]

+I’ve generally seen people consider Armor of Shadows one of the weaker Invocations, seeing as it’s functionally just +1 AC the majority of the time. And if medium armor proficiency becomes standard for Warlocks in 2024, it’s likely to become an even weaker option than it already is.

WotC vastly over-values any sort of nonarmored based AC. Unarmored defense (for monk, barbarian and dancer bard), mage armor/armor of shadows, and barkskin are the only ways to have a PC that doesn't wear armor have a respectable AC and they are all inferior to to a 50 gp suit of scalemail, a shield and +2 dex.

Which is a shame, because there are so many cool archetypes for characters who wear little or no armor, but it's extremely hard to make work. Barbarian survives due to hp and 1/2 damage from rage, but the others all have low hp and can be swatted like bugs if hit.

 

[Shardstone]

Necro.

Since the monk is really good at early levels, do you think that could contribute to this idea of WotC seeing the class as overtuned? Maybe they think the class SHOULD be weak late game since its so strong early game. Bad idea if so though.

 

[Horwath]

Necro.

Since the monk is really good at early levels, do you think that could contribute to this idea of WotC seeing the class as overtuned? Maybe they think the class SHOULD be weak late game since its so strong early game. Bad idea if so though.

I do not see it really good at early levels.
It is completely MAD, you really need 15,15,15,8,8,8 with +1/+1/+1 ASIs to be good in combat.
So you can have DEX,CON and WIS 16 so you can compete with other frontliners. As otherwise you do not have AC or HP to be in front lines.

That leaves you with STR, INT and CHA of 8 or knows as "weak, dumb and ugly"

So you sacrifice much of your roleplay utility for only combat, best you can do is double up on your bonuses and have Stealth, Perception, Insight and Survival skills and forget about all others.

 

[Neonchameleon]

I do not see it really good at early levels.
It is completely MAD, you really need 15,15,15,8,8,8 with +1/+1/+1 ASIs to be good in combat.
So you can have DEX,CON and WIS 16 so you can compete with other frontliners. As otherwise you do not have AC or HP to be in front lines.

That leaves you with STR, INT and CHA of 8 or knows as "weak, dumb and ugly"

So you sacrifice much of your roleplay utility for only combat, best you can do is double up on your bonuses and have Stealth, Perception, Insight and Survival skills and forget about all others.

This is hyperbole. A standard array of 15/14/13/12/10/8 leading to top stats of 16/16/13 or 17/14/14 is still good thanks to Flurry. And you fight like a skirmisher not a tank.

 

[Gammadoodler]

I do not see it really good at early levels.
It is completely MAD, you really need 15,15,15,8,8,8 with +1/+1/+1 ASIs to be good in combat.
So you can have DEX,CON and WIS 16 so you can compete with other frontliners. As otherwise you do not have AC or HP to be in front lines.

That leaves you with STR, INT and CHA of 8 or knows as "weak, dumb and ugly"

So you sacrifice much of your roleplay utility for only combat, best you can do is double up on your bonuses and have Stealth, Perception, Insight and Survival skills and forget about all others.

It's not quite as bad as all that (though it's close). A 14 CON (after species modifiers) is plenty.

But yes, it is a class which has probably the strongest disincentive for stat diversity in the entire book. The other MAD classes tend to lose out on option effectiveness rather than survivability as a result of a suboptimal stat array while the monk loses out on both.