D&D (2024) Does WotC view the Monk class as overtuned from their perspective?

provided their shells can be enchanted
Which RAW they cannot be, and with a lot of DMs/groups isn't going to come up as a possibility. Unfortunately.
While I know it would never happen, I do wish it followed the PF2E model a bit more, and added proficiency to AC. Rather than everyone getting the exact same proficiency bonus once proficient, it allows for granularity with trained (+2), expert (+4) master (+6) and legendary (+8). Monks start with expert unarmored defense, so add 4 to their AC. They also have a stance for strong monks that doesn't allow Dex to AC but gives a large AC buff, letting you make something like a sumo or other big beefy tough guy. Would be nice to have stronk monks!
Yeah there could have been something interesting here.
 

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Horwath

Legend
I think tortles 17 AC is worthwhile, provided their shells can be enchanted. For everything else it should be at least 13+ dex to match mage armor and be an actual benefit over studded leather.

While I know it would never happen, I do wish it followed the PF2E model a bit more, and added proficiency to AC. Rather than everyone getting the exact same proficiency bonus once proficient, it allows for granularity with trained (+2), expert (+4) master (+6) and legendary (+8). Monks start with expert unarmored defense, so add 4 to their AC. They also have a stance for strong monks that doesn't allow Dex to AC but gives a large AC buff, letting you make something like a sumo or other big beefy tough guy. Would be nice to have stronk monks!
Tortle high natural AC is just an asking for cheesing, inviting hordes of 8 Dex characters that lack heavy armor proficiency for easy 17(19 with shield) AC without any investment.

prof bonus to AC for all is not applied so low level enemies can always stay a limited threat to high level characters.
Also if you remove +X bonus from armors and shields and all other magic items, you will max out somewhere around 21-23.
AC 23 can still be hit 10% of the time with just +4 to attack(14 in primary stat).
 

Horwath

Legend
Natural weapons should mostly be finesse, too - honestly I think they all should be even if it doesn't 100% make "realistic" sense (again, we let halflings use 2H swords etc.) so there's at least a CHANCE a PC could make use of them, because far more PCs have a decent DEX than a decent STR, across all PCs.
natural weapons:
1d8 damage or 1d6 finesse
you can make one natural attack as a Bonus action.

flavor your natural attack as you please.
Maybe if natural attack uses both hands(claws) and prevents you from using a shield, increase damage to d12(d10 finesse)
 

tetrasodium

Legend
Supporter
Epic
Tortle high natural AC is just an asking for cheesing, inviting hordes of 8 Dex characters that lack heavy armor proficiency for easy 17(19 with shield) AC without any investment.

prof bonus to AC for all is not applied so low level enemies can always stay a limited threat to high level characters.
Also if you remove +X bonus from armors and shields and all other magic items, you will max out somewhere around 21-23.
AC 23 can still be hit 10% of the time with just +4 to attack(14 in primary stat).
Low lcr monsters have NEVER posed a threat to PCs who are not also low level for some very simple and obvious reasons.

Obviously you can start out with the lowest hanging example and point to the fact that low cr monsters lack the attack bonus & usually damage output for them to be a threat to PCs who are not low level. More importantly is the reason that doesn't even matter... In order for low cr monsters to become a threat the GM needs to throw out zombie swarm style hordes of low cr monsters who can make dozens of d20 rolls per round, that never happens more than a group's first learning experience because it's painfully boring to everyone.
 

Horwath

Legend
Low lcr monsters have NEVER posed a threat to PCs who are not also low level for some very simple and obvious reasons.

Obviously you can start out with the lowest hanging example and point to the fact that low cr monsters lack the attack bonus & usually damage output for them to be a threat to PCs who are not low level. More importantly is the reason that doesn't even matter... In order for low cr monsters to become a threat the GM needs to throw out zombie swarm style hordes of low cr monsters who can make dozens of d20 rolls per round, that never happens more than a group's first learning experience because it's painfully boring to everyone.
yes, having a horde of same creatures to attack the party can work once, maybe twice, that I agree.

But you can use, IE, scout humanoid as a mook for lots of levels in addition to your main target, the BBEG,
Scout dies in 1 or 2 hits, depending on damage rolls, but if there is no +X AC items, with 2 attacks per round, in some numbers they are always a treat in combo with main boss.

adding +X AC items just reduces the window of levels where they can be used.
 

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