D&D (2024) Does WotC view the Monk class as overtuned from their perspective?


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What if the Flurry of Blows was not tied to the Attack action?

You could instead Flurry as a Bonus Action or as a Reaction that can triggers like an Opportunity Attack? Would two Unarmed Strikes as an OA be too powerful compared to Uncanny Frogs (I mean Dodge)?
 

Vikingkingq

Adventurer
What if the Flurry of Blows was not tied to the Attack action?

You could instead Flurry as a Bonus Action or as a Reaction that can triggers like an Opportunity Attack? Would two Unarmed Strikes as an OA be too powerful compared to Uncanny Frogs (I mean Dodge)?
I feel like it doesn't hugely matter how you arrange the individual elements - you could have Bonus Action Flurry and Reaction Patient Defense/Step of the Wind, you could have Attack Flurry and then Bonus Patient Defense/Step of the Wind, etc. - as long as you're able to do one offensive and one defensive ability in a turn.

I guess ideally I kind of prefer keeping Reaction for stuff like Deflect Missiles/Energy or Slow Fall because those feel more like Reactions - you get shot at or something and you need to get out of the way - and I suppose I'd rather have Flurry as Attack (with Bonus being my second choice option) because it feels more like you're exerting yourself to throw a bunch of extra punches on top of what you could normally do, but that's more an aesthetic preference than anything mechanically that consequential.
 

James Gasik

We don't talk about Pun-Pun
Supporter
Pretty much! And this would be significantly more powerful in the vast majority of situations.

No, but trying to illustrate how strong being able to use it just off a reaction would be. You can substitute "ogre" or whatever for "fighter or barbarian."

Not that it matters much since this is just us spitballing, anyway. The core idea is really cool - I love it. If it ever happened, then balance would have to be looked at.
I thought Rogues were always figuring out how to get off-turn reaction attacks for more Sneak Attack?
 

mellored

Legend
I thought Rogues were always figuring out how to get off-turn reaction attacks for more Sneak Attack?
Yup.
But it doesn't always happen.
What if the Flurry of Blows was not tied to the Attack action?

You could instead Flurry as a Bonus Action or as a Reaction that can triggers like an Opportunity Attack? Would two Unarmed Strikes as an OA be too powerful compared to Uncanny Frogs (I mean Dodge)?
All my suggestions Flurry of Blows could be used on OAs.

Also, dance bards can get free punches.

Though we should be a little careful not to overload off turn actions, just from a game flow perspective. Too many die rolls and interruptions can make people lose turn orders.
 

Chaosmancer

Legend
You could split the difference.

As a reaction, reduce damage equal to your Proficiency bonus. (Same as Heavy Armor Mastery)

1 DP to make it Proficiency + monk level. If it reduces damage to 0, you disarm / return fire.

I also still want some kind of reaction movement.

I think I like this, but I don't know about the scaling.

With Reaction -> Reduce damage by Prof, at low levels you are reducing 2 damage, which isn't bad as it could be 33% of the damage, but it doesn't feel good. But at high levels, reducing 6 damage from a flurry of attacks that deal 58 damage is just... kind of pathetic.

The difference being that Heavy Armor Mastery gives the reduction to every single attack, where this gives it to a single attack per round. So in a similar situation, Heavy Armor Mastery for no reaction can reduce a single attack from goblin by 2 points, then also for no reaction at higher levels reduce the flurry of attacks from a Cosmic horror by 18 points, 6 per attack.

I wonder about instead making it Prof Bonus + 1/2 level (rounded down). At low levels, for free, they could stop 4 damage from a single attack. Very powerful, but with lower hp and lower AC, likely not giving them much more survivability than other martial characters at level 4. At high levels that then becomes stopping 15 damage from a single attack. Likely not enough to stop even a single solid blow, but still worth it. Then spend 1 DP to double the amount you stop, as well as activating the ability to respond.

I know it may sound a bit crazy strong, I mean saying that a high level monk could potentially stop 32 damage from a single blow is crazy right? Except, you take something like an Ancient Dragon who can easily deal 35 damage with a single attack, and you look at reactions to increase AC like Shield or Defensive Duelist, and they can do the exact same thing.
 

mellored

Legend
I think I like this, but I don't know about the scaling.

With Reaction -> Reduce damage by Prof, at low levels you are reducing 2 damage, which isn't bad as it could be 33% of the damage, but it doesn't feel good. But at high levels, reducing 6 damage from a flurry of attacks that deal 58 damage is just... kind of pathetic.
At high levels, you have a lot of DP, and shouldn't be relying on your "cantrips" very much.

But yea, there are other ways to scale it.
 

But, again, if it just costs a reaction does it become an automatic choice? i.e. not a choice at all? In most situations it will more or less equal cancelling one hit against the monk every turn. That's a pretty strong ability, and I think it would be too strong. I'd definitely be interested in seeing it play tested. I could be wrong.

Imagine you're a fighter or barbarian dueling a monk with this ability: the monk wins, pretty much automatically, at least until very high levels when the fighter can supernova. But at low levels, where the game is mostly played?
If the bladeward goes through the playtest unchanged, no ki cost. If it gets changed (what I hope), ki cost is justified.
 

What if the Flurry of Blows was not tied to the Attack action?

You could instead Flurry as a Bonus Action or as a Reaction that can triggers like an Opportunity Attack? Would two Unarmed Strikes as an OA be too powerful compared to Uncanny Frogs (I mean Dodge)?
I think allowing flurry as a bonus action for 1 ki even after doing different stuff than attacking seems a good idea.
 


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