Doing away with Class Skills

[The Proconsul]

What do you think would happen, If one were to suddenly decide to do away with class skills (with the exception of exclusive skills, of course).

The most obvious consquence would be that some Prestige Classes would be far easier to qualify for, and their requirements would obviously have to be rewritten.

Also, the Expert class would become much weaker. But that's a NPC Class - they weren't meant to be balanced in the first place.

 

[Galethorn]

One problem I see is that there are a few skills that you might consider semi-exclusive, even though anyone can put points into it....like Hide, Wilderness Lore, and so on. Because of this, there would be no real reason not to take four levels of fighter, if you're any class that relies on combat...

It doesn't just step on the Expert's toes either, it makes it so that as a 3.5e Ranger you could basically be a Rogue with a better HD, spells, favored enemy, high BAB, and all you'd lose is Sneak attack and 2 skill points per level.....


So anyway, it makes it so the only reason to take rogue is sneak attack, and it eliminates all reasons to avoid multiclassing into barbarian and/or fighter as a ranger, rogue, fighter or barbarian.

 

[MrZoink]

How about an option for no, or I don't think that'd be a good idea. The non-yes answers seem a bit neutral.

 

[Imperialus]

yeah I really think it would castrate the Rogue. His skills are what makes the character.

 

[Galethorn]

Sorry if I came off as a little negative in my first post...I would like to mention that I sort of like the idea, though making all non-exclusive skills class skills for everybody is...well...not a good thing to do, unless you change several things around.

One thing that might work would be to let every character choose one or two skills at first level that will always be class skills, no matter what they take levels in.

Another thing you might want to do, depending on your reasons for changing skills around in the first place, would be to let everyone choose one skill to always be a class skill, get 4 extra points for that skill at level 1, and +1 every level thereafter. To balance this, you could make a very specific list of skills (like craft, knowledge, and profession) that they can choose from, but let them choose a more...combat friendly skill if they have a good reason to have it, and you don't think they'll abuse it (like a fighter getting tumble because they used to be in the circus...if they were a dex-fighter, but not if they were a burly dwarf in plate.) You could also add certain skills to the list depending on race, like spot for an elf, hide for a halfling, or alchemy for a gnome.

 

[Herremann the Wise]

I don't know about this. The skill system actually seems pretty balanced in my opinion. You don't want to do anything crazy that disturbs the balance that Wizards have provided for us.

However, you have a reasonable idea in the - making up a name on the fly - "Personal" skill. That is for a particular character, a single skill is always considered a class skill. However, working out a cost for it is pretty difficult. I suppose you could say the following:

Personal Skills
If a character has an attribute score of 15 or greater, they may then choose a single skill that has that attribute as its key ability. This nominated skill is always considered a class skill for that character.
Personal Skills must be chosen upon character creation at 1st Level. Characters cannot acquire personal skills from that point on. A character may have a personal skill for each attribute with an initial score 15 or over.

It gives a nice but small bonus for characters with a good score and makes a certain sense. Neither does it overpower the individual character or disturb the overall game balance.

What do you think?

Best Regards
Herremann the Wise

 

[Celtavian]

Re

Yes, I think it is a good idea. I have been toying with the idea myself. Your game would become more like GURPS, but it almost seems like they are moving in that direction anyhow.

It better fits the archetypes found in literature who aren't limited from doing things like hiding and spotting because they didn't pick up a few levels of Rogue.

An alternative to doing away with class skills would be to select a set of General Skills from the list that are exclusive to no class skill list. For example, making Ride, Spot, and Listen all general skills since they are skills that pretty much anyone could pick up.
There are quite a few skills that would be a given for adventurers, and the three I listed would definitely fit for any adventurer who travels alot and must be alert to danger at all times.

 

[Zhnov]

Proconsul,

Why do you propose this change?

OP

 

[Drawmack]

1) 3.5 does away with exclusive skills.

2) The rogue and bard become a lot less powerful without the advent of class skills. Their main selling point is the number of skills they can take as class skills.

 

[The Proconsul]

I proposed this change, becuase, for example, a knowledgeable fighter is nigh-impossible to build under the curent rules.

Hmmm, another possibility would be, perhaps, that a character gets to choose any skills as class skills, with a maximum in the number of class skills his class has (hope that was understandable ) If they take up another class, they get more class skills/loose class skills equal to the difference in the number of class skills they have. (Counting Craft, Knowledge etc. generally as one skill)

Example: A character has class with 5 class skills. He chosses Knowledge, Diplomacy, Sense Motive, Gather Information, and Tumble. Later, he advances in a PrC woth only 3 class skills. As long as he advances in that class, Diplomacy and Gather Inf are no longer class skills for him. Alternatively, if the PrC has 6 Class Skills, Intimidate can be added to the list.

I can't see why the Rogue would become useless? He has Uncanny Dodge, Evasion, and his special abilities, too... though I must agree a bit on the Ranger part...