Dominus Magisterium--Law and Order in The D&D Campaign

[Nightfall]

Yeah between that and the Unfailing...well I don't think many will try Eosin. Have to admit I'D LOVE to run a campaign in Hollowfaust MAINLY because I know the PCs won't run wild AND I can always say "Undead don't turn in Hollowfaust!" At least not unless you're BORN there.

 

[sword-dancer]

SHARK

Also, you would think that with all of these Thieve's Guilds running around through the cities, that the Law Enforcement with ramp it up, and step up the pressure. I can hardly see the law enforcement forces standing idlely by while the Thieves' Guilds run rampant!

Thieves guilds? Running rampant???
Thieves gangs yes .
But if some gangleader get crazy and try to take money from the artisan guilds racket?
The enforcer would be met by their tour with the armed power of the guild members.
When they didn`t go proactive and visit the gang (leader?) or hire adventurers to solve the problem.
And the captured enforcers would be questioned by the watch and the magistrates, and this could include very effective arguments(read torture even in LG countries) to speak.
From the backing up of this with arcane and divine magic I wouldn`t begin with.
Good chance the boss would be replaced by someone with a more sound mind.

Tiefling

Well as long as we're basing this on Dark Ages Europe...

Actually there was very little law and order. The law-enforcement capacity of a local lord was pretty limited, and as a consequence, like you said, there was almost no trade. Merchants did NOT travel between countries, and few would risk intra-kingdom commerce if it meant going through wild, undeveloped areas where highwaymen dwelt. For most people life WAS full of abject poverty and despair. Laws were pretty simple, hardly a Code of Hammurabi, and they weren't always written down. If you did something that the local lord deemed to be a crime, whether or not some code of law said it was illegal, he would punish you (if he could catch you). This only began to change in the later part of the 13th century (which is well out of the Dark Ages).

If you would accused of murder the relatives would take blood vengeance or the thing or Count would judge you.
Weregild the bloodprice was only acceptable if it wasn´t fool play, striking from behind, murdering an unarmed man or such.
It depends a bit on the nation and the time.
The goths and saxon had very strong laws of their ancestors.
The saxon law der Sachsenspiegel the saxonmirror was well defined.
And woe befell the Judge Lord or Duke who misused his authorities, judged unjust and dishonorable.
Such a Niding would found his fate hanging from a tree, or something more unlucky from the shame of his house, if they wouldn`t declare him houseless not to speak.
The Eastgoths judged and executed a king for treason.
Choosed an an nobled commoner, Count Witichis to be their king in the war against Justinian and his Warmaster Belisar.
Choosed him before nobles of ancient heritage back to the gods.

 

[sword-dancer]

To intersteing to let it slide dow so

BUMP

 

[jollyninja]

in my current homebrew there are 12 immortal (will not die a natural death) warriors called in a stroke of true originality the judges. basically fear of these 12 men tends to keep people in line as 12 means one is within each nation at any given time and they do wander constantly, this sort of thing gives them a focused goal.

also in most larger centers there are a few well known individuals such as the druid in my tag line who like their areas to be nice and predictable, throwing your weight around a bit of course will not draw their attention but if you take over a town in which he has followers and slow down production of any products that he has an interest in, you will be dead within an hour of him hearing of it and his followers have magical items that make it so he will hear of it. basically players know in my campaigns that if they decide that they are the biggest fish in the pond before they actually are at that level of power, they will end up little fish on big freaking hooks. i have come down hard on a few parties who foolishly took a few to many liberties.

my campaign as a whole does not have a lawful bent, chaos has it's champions as well but that's a different thread all together.

 

[Bonedagger]

If the villagers and the locally lawenforcers are suffering under the tyranny of PC's (Never happend in my campaigns though) somebody in the town, usually the elders, will know who to go and get to help. The PC's will then experience what it is like to be hunted by equally powerfull NPC's who has the support of the common man (They will soon discover that a loveless world can be a nightmare). I will however not punish the players in a metalike way ("A rock falls from the sky. etc."). They will maybe end up hearing children sing songs of the heroes who saved the world from them. Still a potential for good roleplay

 

[mmadsen]

The importance of law and order is crucial. A specific legal code allows for certain judgments, and a powerful law-enforcment service maintains order, and restrains chaos and anarchy. Still, often the local law-enforcement are seemingly pitiful 2nd-4th level Warriors.

In some societies, most until modern times in fact, there is no "law enforcement" organization per se. For instance, in the Viking Iceland of the sagas, there are no police, there are no city guards, and the nobles' men aren't necessarily there to hunt down criminals.

As a rule, a court case is just a hearing before a respected elder. If he declares that Farmer A owes Farmer B a pig, no one comes along to enforce the judgement for Farmer B; he has to rely on his friends and family to back him up if Farmer A reneges. Generally though, social enforcement is enough to keep people playing along with the system.

Further, many things we'd consider criminal were merely civil offenses then. For instance, if I strike a man down, it isn't murder unless I flee from the crime and try to hide my act. In fact, a man is obliged to report a homicide before passing three homes. Such an above-board homicide would require paying a wergeld (man money, like a life-insurance payout), but it wouldn't be criminal. Murder, on the other hand, would have you declared an outlaw, and anyone could kill you or cheat you without fear from the society at large.

 

[Chimera]

Why do many of the same people who make their typical guild Thief 8th or 10th level (for the skills) and their commoners 5th or 7th level; make their town guards 1st or 2nd level? Not accusing anyone here of that, but I've seen it a few times.

Bump the typical town guard up a few levels. Consider that while young men may take the high pay of caravan duty over boring town guard jobs, the older (more experienced) guard may decide that settling down to a town guard position is safer and provides a better quality of life. Especially when one's body starts to give out, or one is married and has kids.

Consider that at a certain point, if they are being killed, the remaining guards will RUN AWAY!!! Normal people aren't suicidal. People keep coming at Hercules because a> it's a TV show, and b> No one is getting killed. He just beats them up. Normal people would flee like the wind from a rampaging adventurer. That guy has a Fireball? Me, I'm running between buildings to keep out of his line of sight while I clear out of town.

+++
The primary point to consider when problems like this arise is that the town is not left in a vacuum. This isn't TV or the movies where the cops never show up and no one comes to get the bad guy. If the locals can't handle the problem, then it goes up the food chain. After the locals, the regional boss (Duke, Governor, whatever) gets a crack at the PCs. S/he should have a few nasty people employed for such tasks.

Failing that, it goes to the King/President/Archduke/Grand Puffykins. No ruler can long tolerate such lawlessness to reign. It's an insult to their rule and stirs up the people against them.

And when that happens, things get nasty. Brute Force? Got that in spades. But more importantly, national governments are composed of people who have years of experience in backbiting, politicking, shady deals, etc, etc. A bunch of stupid adventurers stomping around aren't much of a challenge when you have no intention of fighting them. Oh no. There are much better ways of taking care of such problems...

 

[mmadsen]

While reading up on Cao Cao and the Three Kingdoms (see the Chinese Setting and History thread), I came across an interesting passage:

The civil war which followed destroyed the authority of the empire, and for ten years the heart of China was ravaged and ruined by ragged armies of adventurers, in an infinite permutation of alliances and treachery.

Doesn't this sound similar to what we're discussing? Of course, historic bands of adventurers needed sufficient manpower to form a threat. D&D adventurers only need sufficient experience points.

 

[mmadsen]

Also, you would think that with all of these Thieve's Guilds running around through the cities, that the Law Enforcement with ramp it up, and step up the pressure. I can hardly see the law enforcement forces standing idlely by while the Thieves' Guilds run rampant!

I'm not having much trouble imagining organized crime thriving. As long as those in power want to restrict trade -- in drugs, in alcohol, in sex, in taxable luxury goods -- there'll be plenty of smuggling and underground traffic.

 

[SHARK]

Greetings!

Oh!, indeed! It is precisely because of the chaotic and greedy nature, the sure might, and the lust for power and dominion of many adventurers, killing, raping, enslaving as they desired, that I think would motivate at least a few noble lords, and righteous clerics to mobilize the resources and power of the state to establish and maintain Law and Order.

I realize that it seems very popular that the Thieves' Guilds would be very powerful, but I happen to think (that in organized societies at any rate,) that the powers of Law would come down on the thriving Thieves' Guild like a ton of bricks!:

I can see powerful lords gathering, and organizing wizards and clerics into a network, along with magic items, where the ruling powers are very aware of secret societies, rebellion, and the whispering of the jackals in the dark. Crime, rebellion, anarchy--would all be grabbed by the Hand of Law and swiftly choked to death. In such a magical society with crystal balls, seeing mirrors, and detect thoughts so easily usable, even *thoughts* could be discerned, and if the ruling power desired, punished or controlled. When the Thieves' Guild is located, they could all be rounded up, and either tortured to an agonizing death, or reapetedly and deeply charmed. Once brainwashed and charmed thusly, the state could then use them as infiltrators and even expendable shock troops to fanatically assault and root out any other Thieves' Guilds in different areas. By punishment and decree, any Thieves from these other guilds that survive such operations could be charmed to join the rest of the charmed thieves, to replace any losses, and thus bring the urban assault unit up to full strength again. This force would then continue to operate serving to bring law and order to society.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK