Don't make me roll for initiative.........again

[irdeggman]

Things that get messed up when rerolling initiative:

DELAY
By choosing to delay, you take no action and then act normally on whatever initiative count you decide to act. When you delay, you voluntarily reduce your own initiative result for the rest of the combat. When your new, lower initiative count comes up later in the same round, you can act normally. You can specify this new initiative result or just wait until some time later in the round and act then, thus fixing your new initiative count at that point.
You never get back the time you spend waiting to see what’s going to happen. You can’t, however, interrupt anyone else’s action (as you can with a readied action).

Initiative Consequences of Delaying: Your initiative result becomes the count on which you took the delayed action. If you come to your next action and have not yet performed an action, you don’t get to take a delayed action (though you can delay again).

If you take a delayed action in the next round, before your regular turn comes up, your initiative count rises to that new point in the order of battle, and you do not get your regular action that round.

READY
The ready action lets you prepare to take an action later, after your turn is over but before your next one has begun. Readying is a standard action. It does not provoke an attack of opportunity (though the action that you ready might do so).

Readying an Action: You can ready a standard action, a move action, or a free action. To do so, specify the action you will take and the conditions under which you will take it. Then, any time before your next action, you may take the readied action in response to that condition. The action occurs just before the action that triggers it. If the triggered action is part of another character’s activities, you interrupt the other character. Assuming he is still capable of doing so, he continues his actions once you complete your readied action. Your initiative result changes. For the rest of the encounter, your initiative result is the count on which you took the readied action, and you act immediately ahead of the character whose action triggered your readied action.

You can take a 5-foot step as part of your readied action, but only if you don’t otherwise move any distance during the round.

Initiative Consequences of Readying: Your initiative result becomes the count on which you took the readied action. If you come to your next action and have not yet performed your readied action, you don’t get to take the readied action (though you can ready the same action again). If you take your readied action in the next round, before your regular turn comes up, your initiative count rises to that new point in the order of battle, and you do not get your regular action that round.

Distracting Spellcasters: You can ready an attack against a spellcaster with the trigger “if she starts casting a spell.” If you damage the spellcaster, she may lose the spell she was trying to cast (as determined by her Concentration check result).

Readying to Counterspell: You may ready a counterspell against a spellcaster (often with the trigger “if she starts casting a spell”). In this case, when the spellcaster starts a spell, you get a chance to identify it with a Spellcraft check (DC 15 + spell level). If you do, and if you can cast that same spell (are able to cast it and have it prepared, if you prepare spells), you can cast the spell as a counterspell and automatically ruin the other spellcaster’s spell. Counterspelling works even if one spell is divine and the other arcane.
A spellcaster can use dispel magic to counterspell another spellcaster, but it doesn’t always work.

Readying a Weapon against a Charge: You can ready certain piercing weapons, setting them to receive charges. A readied weapon of this type deals double damage if you score a hit with it against a charging character.

Surprise can likewise be afected - since those with surprise roll initiative and keep that roll for the combat.

Basically, even though it is an optional rule - IMO most DMs will drop it due to how much it slows down combat and how much extra bookkeeping is requied for things like spell effects and the like.


Still I know several GMs who like the idea of rerolling initiative - but that is mostly based on their experience on other games where that is part of the rules (e.g., deadlands). But even though they like the idea they don't do it precisely becasue it slows down the game too much.

I was playing with a group who had a DM new to 3.5 and was requiring that initiativ be rerolled every round (carry over from earier games he'd run). When I pointed out to him that the "default" rule was not to do that and that it would really slow down the game he "relented" and realized the follow of his ways. He ahd also started everyone at 17th level which added an whole new set of complexities to the game.

 

[smootrk]

I think the ruling is a poor decision, especially from the combat slowdown point of view. However, some of the other arguements to the process can have positive effects as well, or ramifications that actually make combat a bit more eratic (and in some opinions, a little more realistic because of the variations).

For instance, when talking that spell durations might be shortened... in addition the spell durations might be effectively lengthened as well, with dramatic effect.

Ready an Action or Delay becomes a round to round decision, instead of waiting for the most opportune time to do something, there is the chance that the law of 'use it or lose it' might happen.

All in all, I don't see the modification of the rules as all that bad. Just another personal preference issue. But, just let me re-state, I would not do it. I don't really need that level of randomness in my personal game, but I can see where others might.

 

[werk]

Something else to bring up: in 3.5, there is nothing of consequence that occurs at the End of Round. End of Round is no longer relevant for anything in 3.5.

This is really the reason not to reroll every round, you shouldn't have rounds, you should just have turns...a round is a measure of time between your turns.

Round: A 6-second unit of game time used to manage combat. Every combatant may take at least one action every round.

Turn: The point in the round at which you take your action(s). On your turn, you may perform one or more actions, as dictated by your current circumstances.

Roll initiative and set up the order of action which repeats itself. This is easier to illustrate using index cards, card comes off the top, goes on the bottom, repeat.
The numbers don't matter once you have the order, but it is easier for most DMs to manage if they say, top-of-the-round or end-of-the-round and subtract one from everyone's counters. It's less accurate, but is easier.

"Rounds" are a holdover from the older versions' breakdown of turns into rounds into segments for time measurement...it helps with the charade of simultaneity.

 

[3catcircus]

Ya know what?

Suck it up - he is the DM, he is running the campaign and he is chosing to use an optional rule. Live with it.

 

[Seeten]

If the game "sucks it up" I'd vote with my feet, circus.

No amount of "He's the DM" arguments can make me waste my valuable time doing activities I dont find fun.

 

[Wish]

Rerolling every round does bring up some interesting possibilities though. I don't think it's a good rule, particularly, but I wonder what sorts of tricks one might pull to maximize the possibility and effectiveness of the double turns that will result from this rule.

 

[Dross]

Rerolling every round does bring up some interesting possibilities though. I don't think it's a good rule, particularly, but I wonder what sorts of tricks one might pull to maximize the possibility and effectiveness of the double turns that will result from this rule.

One obvious thing is that Improved Initiative becomes a lot more powerful, it is now almost a "must have" feat for everyone. As does any feat or ability that adds to the initiative modifier. I do not know what books you have available, but several feats in the Forgoten Realms Campaign setting and Player's guide to Faerun have feats which raise your initiative mod (and can stack).

 

[andargor]

I have no problem with rolling a d6 initiative each round... Oh wait, wrong edition(s)

Seriously, don't quit over this. Communications for teh win.

 

[KarinsDad]

Ya know what?

Suck it up - he is the DM, he is running the campaign and he is chosing to use an optional rule. Live with it.

The game is about fun for everyone, not just the DM.

Anyone who allows the DM total control over the game is not using their given right to protest bad rulings and bad house rules. Worse case, people can leave a game over a lousy DM. Best case, they can communicate and compromise a solution that makes the game fun for everyone.

A good DM also tries to find out what makes the game fun for his players. Some players like to follow the RAW. Others like to roleplay. Others like to battle. A good DM does not railroad his players with lousy house rules which one or more of his players strenuously object to.

 

[KarinsDad]

One obvious thing is that Improved Initiative becomes a lot more powerful, it is now almost a "must have" feat for everyone. As does any feat or ability that adds to the initiative modifier. I do not know what books you have available, but several feats in the Forgoten Realms Campaign setting and Player's guide to Faerun have feats which raise your initiative mod (and can stack).

How does it become more powerful?

All it means is that anyone with Improved Initiative would tend to go early most rounds. This already happens when initiative is only rolled once per battle. I don't see much of a mathematical difference.

The only advantage of Improved Initiative when you roll init every round is that your PC tends to have fewer situations of:

Round one: PC, NPC
Round two: NPC, PC

Instead, it tends to be PC, NPC, PC, NPC, PC, NPC more often.

This does not appear to be enough of an advantage to make the feat "must have".