Don't pay the party in gold [article link]

J-H

Hero
Pay them in silver instead!
From Bret Devereaux:

There's a level 0 to 5 campaign idea in here, where the PCs go from level 0 commoners to landed warriors with good gear. Add a couple of layers of magic items in, and you pretty well replicate the traditional "Here, solve this quest and be rewarded with a magic sword!" I suspect some of this knowledge is at the roots of some of the older models, particularly where a high level (9th level) fighter becomes a landowning noble of his own with retainers.

Most of the way through the article said:
And so we can at last loop back around to the initial quandry, the tyranny of ‘gold’ as a standard reward for your fictional adventuring party in a Dungeons and Dragons (or similar) campaign or setting.


As you can tell, basically no one is going to hand a party gold for defeating a bunch of goblin raiders or getting that Aboleth out of the lake. But because different kinds of people in different pre-modern economies engage with coinage and money in different ways, they’ll probably try to pay in different ways.


The population most likely to want to pay with money are the burghers (townsfolk): as noted above, urban centers that have lots of non-farmers and populations too large for everyone to just know everyone else are ideal for the use of coinage and tend to be where coinage catches on most quickly and completely. There is thus something of an irony: the town will want to pay you in coins, which you will be best able to spend…in the town’s market. Remember: relatively little of this coinage is circulating back into the countryside (unless you have a state extracting rents and taxes in coin!), but then of course the town is likely to have all sorts of producers happy to convert your pretty silver coins into things you actually want. That’s well enough, you hardly want to travel with lots of coinage anyway: the weight is trivial and the coins are liable to get stolen in any event.


The villagers for a small rural village might be able to scrape up some silver coins – they probably keep some silver for dealing with merchants, craftsmen and so on – but that is a limited supply and they’d much rather pay in something they have in abundance: food (and other agricultural goods). That may seem silly, but remember looking above how large a chunk of a worker’s regular earnings just getting food and lodging could be: a big feast18 and then a two-weeks supply of grains (as much as you can carry, effectively) could actually be a pretty decent chunk of value.19 If they need something with a higher value-density, they might actually offer the other thing produced regularly in households: textiles. Good cloth was valuable, portable and useful; in the 14th century one price datapoint we have put high quality wool at 5s per yard. Of course there are going to be real limits to how much a rural village can even pay on these terms: for any larger problem, they’ll have to rely on their vertical contacts (in practice, they’d have relied on these first) and go up to the Big Man.


Now the Big Man on the hill, like the burghers in the town, has resources: he can pay for military service. Indeed, in a sense, his job is paying for military service: he holds his position in no small part because he takes the surplus production of his rural tenants/subjects (extracted through rents and taxes) and uses it to pay for military force with which he holds and enforces his claim to rents and taxes, both against any peasant’s dream of independence, but equally against other Big Men. And assuming this is a setting where coinage has been invented, the Big Man certainly has access to a sufficient amount to pay simply pay in cash for services rendered dealing with that Owlbear his retainers kept failing to track.20


But the Big Man would probably rather ‘pay’ your adventurers differently. After all, remember that the Big Man is running a business which converts agricultural surplus (extracted in rents) into military power (men, horses, weapons, armor) and legitimacy (often conferred with extravagant gifts: jewelry and such). So while he could simply transact business and pay you in silver and send you on your way, it would be a lot easier to compensate you with what he has as well: he might gift you a sword or set of armor from his armory, or a horse from his stables.


That gift isn’t just easier for him, it comes with broader social implications which are also better for him and for you. Whereas payment in money might not incur any great obligation, the exchange of gifts here – you have solved a problem, he has given you something in return – creates a social obligation, a bond between you, especially if the value of the gift exceeds the value of the service. You are now obligated to help out again, in the future, should he ask, out of ‘gratitude’ for the ‘gift’ (and for such services, you will receive more ‘gifts’). Meanwhile, remember up top about how much one’s place in the political economy matters for how well one is paid – just being a more important kind of person in these societies21 could radically change how you were compensated and thus your station in life?


Well, unlike a few coins, those gifts can change who you are: a man with a strong arm is a peasant; a man with a strong arm, gifted mail and a weapon is a man-at-arms, whose station entitles them to better treatment. That same man, gifted a horse and a lance, by the Big Man is a knight (or substitute the culturally appropriate moniker for minor mounted military aristocrat). That’s great for you – far better than just a few coins that make you merely a momentarily rich peasant – but also great for the Big Man who just bought himself a minor military aristocrat (remember: you’re obligated to be grateful for his generosity and to respond if he calls), minted out of stores of weapons he was keeping for just such an occasion.
 

log in or register to remove this ad

Well, I'm glad the blog is called 'A Collection of Unmitigated Pedantry.' ;)

Okay, serious thought on the first part-- yes, we got it (we all got it, a long time ago) -- it is unrealistic that D&D treats gold as the benchmark coinage*. Most societies used coins where such a unit would have been silver, because that is the precious metal commodity with the right scarcity upon which to run a currency. *same role as dollars and euros -- how much a single one matters to you differs based what year it is and your personal wealth, but you probably think of sums large or small in terms or fractions or multiples of this unit.

D&D was built as a treasure-hunting game, and (IMO) naturally framed optimal treasure in units that evoked desire when sitting in treasure chests -- Hollywood-doubloon-sized coins (1/10 lb., initially), objects of art, gems and jewels (likely looking like the ones in Goonies more than realistic carats, although I don't think it actually says). Of course the coins came in all varieties, but then you summated them into GP value to convert that into XP (and the gems and art had a GP-value, not SP- or PP-values, etc.). This makes sense when the predominant game purpose of coins is to acquire them.

So, I get both why D&D does it the way they do, and why someone would dislike that. Just like using pikes outside formation or wearing plate harness while crawling into dank holes in the ground, it all depends on what value you place realism. It likely doesn't change anything in the game (I've played plenty of non-D&D fantasy TTRPGs that did it, people treated the coins the same way).

Serious thought on the first part -- this idea has (IMO) a lot more meat to it. The local town or even lord doesn't have the coinage sitting around to pay every PC adventuring party in coins. Instead they do so in goods, services, (titles, land), and so on. Want to turn those bolts of cloth and wagons of grain into coins? Well, that's a trip to the main city (complete with logistic details, potential pitfalls, adventure hooks, and so on). Better idea might be to trade it nearby to someone who has what you want -- assuming they want grain and cloth (if not, can you trade it to another party for what they do want?).

All of this works -- if your gaming group would find that kind of play pattern enjoyable. Personally, I love such things (it gives you more things to actually do between dungeons and fights and such), but it really depends on what you want out of your game.
 

Oryzarius

Strigiform Storyteller
Supporter
Stock D&D cycles pretty quickly through the point where mundane equipment (masterwork arms and armor, etc.) can be viewed as worthwhile rewards. While it lasts, though, it's fun to have that lust for a suit of plate armor.

I always enjoy discussions of non-tangible rewards: favors, alliances, business partnerships, knighthoods or noble titles, land grants, etc. Building PCs into a web of social obligations offers all sorts of fodder for future adventures.

Older modules often featured art objects or other valuable but delicate and/or hard-to-transport treasures. Those offer a lot more "flavor" than just piles of infinitely fungible coins.

But I understand the appeal of easy book-keeping, an avoidance of pesky logistics, and the simplicity and popularity of "gold!"
 

MGibster

Legend
This is a nice timely thread as I just started a new campaign and I've been considering my options for doling out rewards other than boring old gold. I think gold has become the standard because it's easy, and, in reality, a lot of players are just going to turn whatever art, gems, etc., etc. they find into gold, so handing out gold just simplifies the whole process. First though, what's the purpose of having rewards in games? I know that sounds like a silly question, but it's an important one to answer before you decide what kind of rewards to give out.
 



Oryzarius

Strigiform Storyteller
Supporter
First though, what's the purpose of having rewards in games? I know that sounds like a silly question, but it's an important one to answer before you decide what kind of rewards to give out.

I can see multiple different purposes.

One simple but obvious purpose is to "keep score": if you keep getting wealthier, you must be "winning".

Another purpose is to enable appropriate (but hopefully not excessive) purchases of consumables, whether those are arrows, holy water, potions of healing, beasts of burden, or something else.

Yet another is to enable major "capital improvements" in the PCs' equipment, by finding (for luck-of-the-draw) or purchasing (for buyer's choice) better mundane equipment or magic items.

Related to the above is the idea of opening new possibilities. Magic items are an obvious example, but a mundane ship as loot also gives the PCs opportunities they didn't have before.

And, lastly, there's the idea of rewards (particularly non-monetary ones, like noble titles) as social or lore-based "glue" binding the adventurers more tightly to the culture and history of the game-world.

Maybe there's also "commemorative" loot, which might also fit into the categories above but also marks a major accomplishment in the campaign arc: you get scales from the dragon you killed, or a Medusa head to hang on your shield.
 

GrimCo

Hero
I tried doing other things than giving gold. But players mostly just want to know how much stuff costs and how much they can get for it. They don't care what type of precious stone, what kind of jewelry or fine art they got.

They don't want to play accountants and ledgers. They wanna go out, kill monsters, take their stuff, convert it into cash, buy cool stuff that enables them to kill even bigger monsters.

Stuff other than gold that works somewhat is better mundane gear at lower levels and tailored magical gear at mid/high levels.
 

Theory of Games

Storied Gamist
This is why E.G.G. wrote that D&D wasn't simulating anything. It's just a game. A game where gold is meta-currency: fictional characters can use the fictional gold to buy fictional stuff AND the more fictional gold the fictional characters acquired, the faster they improved.

"Treasure Type", rather than being "tyrannical", worked as intended (y)
 

MGibster

Legend
I tried doing other things than giving gold. But players mostly just want to know how much stuff costs and how much they can get for it. They don't care what type of precious stone, what kind of jewelry or fine art they got.
Bingo. This is why gold is so popular as players tend to view giving them gems and objects of art as unnecessary extra steps they take to convert it into fungible gold. I think any rewards given to the PCs should definitely work as a reward to the PCs without being a burden. And quite frankly, like you said, we're not playing Accounts & Ledgers we're playing D&D. Though some players really do like playing A&L in addition to D&D.

So what are some advantages objects of art or jewelry might have over gold? A pound of gold is worth 50 gold pieces. In real life, a London Good Delivery Bar, a bar of gold notable for its large size and purity, is on average a little over 27 pounds, so in D&D terms it's worth 1,200 gold pieces. That kind of weight really starts to add up when you're expected to transport it. i.e. Haul it from a dungeon to back to your base of operations. And it's not really a practical amount to carry around as spending money. A moonstone jewel is worth 50 gold, and while the DMG doesn't say how much it weight, I'm going to assume it's about the size of a gemstone. i.e. It's weight is negligible. For day-to-day interactions you probably need gold, but maybe you can use gems for larger purchases? Instead of carrying 30 pounds of gold maybe a few ounces of gems will do the trick?

I pretty much agree with @Oryzarius' list of reasons why rewards are given in games. It's probably not an exhaustive list, but it's a great start. Ultimately, I think the key here is that you want to make sure the rewards are meaningful to the players. My beef with 5th edition is that after a certain point gold became meaningless, but it takes a bit more effort to make other rewards have a tangible meaning in the game.

One of my players wants a pet dinosaur. I mean his character does. Maybe the player does too, but I can't do anything about that. I'm actually in a good position to have a pet dinosaur be part of the treasure during the next session. They're finding a group of gourmands and I had planned on them finding a storage area with a bunch of exotic animals in captivity. Adding a young dinosaur is trivially easy and I can focus part of the campaign on the PC training the darn thing.
 

Remove ads

Top