D&D 5E Don't Throw 5e Away Because of Hasbro


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Sometimes you have someone who really loves a car you're just "meh" about. There's ultimately nothing you can do about it to convince them that it's not the car for you. That's been my experience about a great many things.
And sometimes pre-determined bias can make someone judge something without objectivity... whether that judgement is warranted or not... thats life.
 



No I didn't



No I didn't

SlyFlourish, in post #927:
This might blow your mind but its possible I wrote for them and spotlight them because I believe in their work. I also wrote pieces of the Tales of the Valiant Monster Vault and yet continue to extol the virtues of the A5E Monstrous Menagerie (which really is a fantastic book and looks to be a more useful book than the D&D 2024 Monster Manual).
You, in post #933:
Here we go... MM isn't even out yet but you had to disparage it for...well I'm not sure for what particular purpose in this post but hey it's your ( mostly uninformed) oppinion.
(emphasis mine)

Here are you literally saying that he was disparaging the 5.24 MM because he thought the LU's Menagerie looked to be more useful.

Did you forget? Were you trying to say he was disparaging D&D because he also wrote for TotV or likes LU?

Didn't disagree with that but your above statements show me you didn't understand what the initial disagreement between SlyFlourish and I was about.
I guess not, because I didn't remember that you were accusing him of badmouthing D&D to line his own pockets. I thought you were arguing simply because you only believe in judging completed work. My bad.

You know, in #925:
And in the nature of being open and more upfront I think it would be a better look if the OP @SlyFlourish was clear and upfront that outside of his own 5e products, some of which compete directly with WotC products, that he has also been a financially compensated contributor to TotV (another D&D competing product which he promotes on these boards) and has also been paid to promote and discuss TotV on at least one, if not more, of his videos by Kobold Press. Is he an employee of KP... Nope but he has a very clear vested interest in getting people to go with TotV and or his own 5e products vs. WotC.
(emphasis mine)

Which is a weird thing to say about someone whom you acknowledge not only has written for 5e but started this entire thread telling people to not stop buying from Hasbro.

Also, it's a really weird thing to say anyway, because people buy plenty of games for myriad reasons. Meaning that other than financial reasons, there's nothing stopping someone from buying D&D and Tales of the Valiant and Level Up and any number of other D&D-alikes or non-D&D-alikes.

Layout is part of judging a book... correct?
Part. I'm going through my games from Itch bundles and a not-terrible layout and design is definitely something I use to decide if I'm going to keep the pdf for later reading. (Note to indie game writers: using handwriting or blackletter fonts for the body of the text is a bad idea, as is using a light-colored font on a light-colored background.)

But unless the final product is literally unreadable, layout--by which you were using to mean things like... section breaks?--is less important than content. And quite frankly, something can be beautifully presented but still be a hot mess of a game.

(Which reminds me; I should get back to reading Invisible Sun.)

Yet the LU book has alot more than just statblocks in it...
I didn't buy it for the preface or list of conditions in the back of the book. I bought it for the statblocks, which are objectively deeper than the similar statblocks in 5.14 (most monsters have bonus actions and/or reactions, giving them more to do on their turn). The fact that some of the lore is pretty cool is a bonus feature, but I didn't buy it specifically for the lore.

Tell me, what else are you buying the MM for? Any reason other than completing your core set of three books? Coz if you bought it so you can use the monsters in your game, you bought it for the statblocks.

All things that would (depending on how well they are done or not) speak to how useable/useful the book is when running a game.
For DMs running out of the book or who dislike pausing the game to look up info, having lists of signs, lore, names, complete info on spells, etc., are all very useful things to have. And I'd wager there are probably more DMs who run out of the books than there are DMs who carefully prepare everything ahead of time.

Heck, I tend to overprepare ahead of time and rely on my own lore, and those things are still useful as inspiration.

Me saying the actual books can't be judged on their useablility and/or usefulness in play until they are actually known and possibly used...is...insulting to you. Okay I'm sorry you take my commentary on what I feel is necessary to make that type of judgement as insulting... I guess??
Saying that drawing conclusions based on available data, especially when using that opinion to form a personal opinion, is just "reading tea leaves" is insulting. (Which you did in posts #1047 and #1061, in case you forgot again.)

Good for you. I didn't ask for your conclusion on statblocks, the MM or anything else. You've persistently quoted me as you've posted your comments about a back and forth without a full grasp of what the contention was. You've tried to redefine my argument and mis-represented it in the process and now claim I've insulted you because...reasons.
Since I spelled out those reasons before, you can't just say "reasons" like I pulled the claim out of nowhere.
 

SlyFlourish, in post #927:

You, in post #933:

(emphasis mine)

Here are you literally saying that he was disparaging the 5.24 MM because he thought the LU's Menagerie looked to be more useful.

Did you forget? Were you trying to say he was disparaging D&D because he also wrote for TotV or likes LU?


I guess not, because I didn't remember that you were accusing him of badmouthing D&D to line his own pockets. I thought you were arguing simply because you only believe in judging completed work. My bad.

You know, in #925:

(emphasis mine)

Which is a weird thing to say about someone whom you acknowledge not only has written for 5e but started this entire thread telling people to not stop buying from Hasbro.

Also, it's a really weird thing to say anyway, because people buy plenty of games for myriad reasons. Meaning that other than financial reasons, there's nothing stopping someone from buying D&D and Tales of the Valiant and Level Up and any number of other D&D-alikes or non-D&D-alikes.


Part. I'm going through my games from Itch bundles and a not-terrible layout and design is definitely something I use to decide if I'm going to keep the pdf for later reading. (Note to indie game writers: using handwriting or blackletter fonts for the body of the text is a bad idea, as is using a light-colored font on a light-colored background.)

But unless the final product is literally unreadable, layout--by which you were using to mean things like... section breaks?--is less important than content. And quite frankly, something can be beautifully presented but still be a hot mess of a game.

(Which reminds me; I should get back to reading Invisible Sun.)


I didn't buy it for the preface or list of conditions in the back of the book. I bought it for the statblocks, which are objectively deeper than the similar statblocks in 5.14 (most monsters have bonus actions and/or reactions, giving them more to do on their turn). The fact that some of the lore is pretty cool is a bonus feature, but I didn't buy it specifically for the lore.

Tell me, what else are you buying the MM for? Any reason other than completing your core set of three books? Coz if you bought it so you can use the monsters in your game, you bought it for the statblocks.


For DMs running out of the book or who dislike pausing the game to look up info, having lists of signs, lore, names, complete info on spells, etc., are all very useful things to have. And I'd wager there are probably more DMs who run out of the books than there are DMs who carefully prepare everything ahead of time.

Heck, I tend to overprepare ahead of time and rely on my own lore, and those things are still useful as inspiration.


Saying that drawing conclusions based on available data, especially when using that opinion to form a personal opinion, is just "reading tea leaves" is insulting. (Which you did in posts #1047 and #1061, in case you forgot again.)


Since I spelled out those reasons before, you can't just say "reasons" like I pulled the claim out of nowhere.
Let's...disengage... I'm not sure what you're trying to prove but this ain't the post. All we're doing is going in circles.
 

What if I decided I didn't like someone because I saw them at a distance and I also knew their dad?
Bad analogy.

What if you disliked someone because you saw them at a distance, knew their dad, and read all their social media posts which revealed them to be a jerk?

Because in this case, revealed monster statblocks, tables of contents, etc. is the equivalent of social media posts. I'm not saying that 5.24 is a jerk; I'm saying that I've read enough about the books through articles and the many, many threads posted about 5.24 on this and other forums to know I dislike it enough to not want to buy it. Especially not for $150 plus tax and shipping.
 



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