Pathfinder 1E Double Barrel Shot Gun

[Light Knight]

When firing both barrels with a slug, states at one target. And the damage is increased to 2d8 for each barrel for a total of 4d8.

When firing a single slug is it 2d8? If not, why does 2 shots cause a total for 4d8? Seems to me the benefit is being able to fire two shots...But you are getting double damage on top of it?

 

[ggeilman]

The way I read it the damage for pellets is 1d8 and for a slug (bullet) is 2d8 so both barrels with slugs would be 4d8. And yes, slugs do a lot more damage. Of course using 00 or 000 buck would probably do about the same thing. I think they are figuring the standard shot at #7 shot is all I can guess.

 

[patofiero]

The rules specifically say when firing a single shot from a double barrelled shotgun the damage is 1d8.

With a double shot you have lost the possibility of the second shot being a critical and incurred a penalty to attack.

With two shots you have a roughly a 10% chance of one of them being a critical hit, no penalty to attack, each shot does 1d8 damage, for a total of 2d8 damage when fired at a single target.

With two shots fired at once you have a 5% chance of it being a critical, a -4 penalty to attack, and you do 4d8 points of damage when fired at a single target.

So you see the designers balanced the loss of critical and attack penalty by increasing the damage.

This seems fair to me.

 

[Light Knight]

So define " A double shot that fires bullets is inaccurate, and takes a –4 penalty on both attacks."

Sounds like you take two attacks, both of which have a chance of a crit.

 

[patofiero]

So define " A double shot that fires bullets is inaccurate, and takes a –4 penalty on both attacks."

Sounds like you take two attacks, both of which have a chance of a crit.

I surmise that they say "on both attacks" to avoid any confusion about the application of the penalty.

However the earlier text in the description makes it quite clear: "one barrel at a time, or both together as *one* attack." which would means you only have once chance to critical when firing both barrels.

 

[ggeilman]

Yeah that makes no sense, I can see the increased damage for firing a slug but not twice for a double shot. Sounds like it needs errated. Firing both barrels would make it less accurate but would not quadruple the damage if both hit.

 

[patofiero]

Yeah that makes no sense, I can see the increased damage for firing a slug but not twice for a double shot. Sounds like it needs errated. Firing both barrels would make it less accurate but would not quadruple the damage if both hit.

There are two extremes in gaming. Simulation vs. Abstraction. You are arguing for simulation. The description argues for an abstraction.

One reason both barrels are clarified as being -4 is that there are some feats and defenses that can be only employed one attack at a time.

Thus while shooting the shotgun in this way is only one attack, or a standard action, you may have feats that apply differently to each of the bullets, and the defenders may also have such protections.

 

[patofiero]

There are two extremes in gaming. Simulation vs. Abstraction. You are arguing for simulation. The description argues for an abstraction.

One reason both barrels are clarified as being -4 is that there are some feats and defenses that can be only employed one attack at a time.

Thus while shooting the shotgun in this way is only one attack, or a standard action, you may have feats that apply differently to each of the bullets, and the defenders may also have such protections.

Note: Should have said "defenses that can only be employed one *HIT* at a time.

 

[ggeilman]

I am an old grognard myself so I go for the simulation end of things. I was a member of the Conflict Simulation Society when most of the gamers here were in daipers for not even born. Besides, I read balistics testing reports now and again. It is hard to abstract whether a person is dead or not. They either have a huge whole in them from that double shot of 2 1 oz slugs or the shots missed. Me, I'd fire my double one shot at a time. Let's me fire at 2 opponents. The chances of either of them getting up again after getting hit center mass with a 1 oz slug is pretty small.
Now if they are going to abstract the whole thing and state that the shotguns are firing bullets and not slugs I just throw up my hands. I load some of my own shot shell and I have yet to see anyone figure out how to load a bullet into a shotgun with or without a shell.

 

[Ralts Bloodthorne]

I am an old grognard myself so I go for the simulation end of things. I was a member of the Conflict Simulation Society when most of the gamers here were in daipers for not even born. Besides, I read balistics testing reports now and again. It is hard to abstract whether a person is dead or not. They either have a huge whole in them from that double shot of 2 1 oz slugs or the shots missed. Me, I'd fire my double one shot at a time. Let's me fire at 2 opponents. The chances of either of them getting up again after getting hit center mass with a 1 oz slug is pretty small.
Now if they are going to abstract the whole thing and state that the shotguns are firing bullets and not slugs I just throw up my hands. I load some of my own shot shell and I have yet to see anyone figure out how to load a bullet into a shotgun with or without a shell.

Except HP are already an abstraction, unlike the old wound points system or even the old TSR Top Secret system.

Unfortunately, since so much of it is abstraction, going for simulationist is trying to shove together two different systems into some unholy hybrid that feels klunky on both ends.