Level Up (A5E) Double Crit + Massive Damage = The Deadliest 5e yet!

[Stalker0]

So I've often spoken of how LU is shaping up to be a deadlier version of 5e, and now that we are seeing some of the mechanics come out, I really like how LU mechanics breathes a lot of fresh life into some old monsters.

The two keys to the puzzle are:

1) Double Crits: A critical hit = Double the rolled damage. This makes crits both straight up stronger, but also swingier (you don't roll the damage twice, you double the rolled damage).
2) Massive Damage: Damage = 20 + 3x character level triggers a Con 15 save or die (if the damage lowers you to 0 hp). On a success you take 1 fatigue + 1 strife.

So take for example the Hill Giant, a CR 5 often considered "underperforming" for their CR. While the Hill Giant can in theory do a lot of damage in O5e, it tends to be easily disposed of.

But now, an average crit from a Hill Giant Club does 37 damage. A 5th level character has a massive death threshold of 35....and so on average a Hill giant crit will trigger a DC 15 con save or die. At worst you're paste. At best, your taking 1 fatigue and 1 strife. Now we have seen possible crit mitigators, for example there was a mechanc in the playtest to sacrifice a shield to negate a hit. You can bet players are going to consider those mechanics when such a crit comes down.... and that's an encounter no one is going to forget.


Or look at the innocent Black Pudding. Its average crit does 49 damage, enough to trigger a check for a 9th level character (and could even get a 10th-11th level with just a slightly above average roll).

So yeah single target monsters are suddenly a whole lot scarier than they were before, even if you don't take any of the new monster manual improvements. I eagerly await my deadlier overlords

 

[WinnableBadger]

Yeah, I am really not sure about the insta death rules. If a character dies, I will probably use the death saving throw rules, rather than instant death.

 

[lichmaster]

So I've often spoken of how LU is shaping up to be a deadlier version of 5e, and now that we are seeing some of the mechanics come out, I really like how LU mechanics breathes a lot of fresh life into some old monsters.

The two keys to the puzzle are:

1) Double Crits: A critical hit = Double the rolled damage. This makes crits both straight up stronger, but also swingier (you don't roll the damage twice, you double the rolled damage).

I'd still roll twice. It's more fun, and avoids rolling paltry damage and doubling it for a miserable total damage.

2) Massive Damage: Damage = 20 + 3x character level triggers a Con 15 save or die. On a success you take 1 fatigue + 1 strife.

Yep, but only if the hit reduces you to 0 hp IIRC.

So take for example the Hill Giant, a CR 5 often considered "underperforming" for their CR. While the Hill Giant can in theory do a lot of damage in O5e, it tends to be easily disposed of.

But now, an average crit from a Hill Giant Club does 37 damage. A 5th level character has a massive death threshold of 35....and so on average a Hill giant crit will trigger a DC 15 con save or die. At worst you're paste. At best, your taking 1 fatigue and 1 strife. Now we have seen possible crit mitigators, for example there was a mechanc in the playtest to sacrifice a shield to negate a hit. You can bet players are going to consider those mechanics when such a crit comes down.... and that's an encounter no one is going to forget.


Or look at the innocent Black Pudding. Its average crit does 49 damage, enough to trigger a check for a 9th level character (and could even get a 10th-11th level with just a slightly above average roll).

So yeah single target monsters are suddenly a whole lot scarier than they were before, even if you don't take any of the new monster manual improvements. I eagerly await my deadlier overlords

All true, but honestly I'm not sure I like it. Sure it's deadlier, but also very swingy. One good roll on your side, one mediocre side on the player's side, and you have a dead character for an encounter that maybe you planned as a filler.
It's good to keep players on your toes, but killing a PC for a bad roll is just something I really dislike.
Will probably turn it into DC 15, if FAILED 1Strife+1Fatigue, nothing if passed. Or tweak the damage thresholds. Like this is too swingy for me.

 

[Stalker0]

Yeah, I am really not sure about the insta death rules. If a character dies, I will probably use the death saving throw rules, rather than instant death.

I think another option for those who think its too deadly is just remove the save and have it automatically give 1 fatigue + 1 strife. That way its a solid impact but not too deadly.

Another middle ground option:

Roll a con saving throw at advantage. On a failure, you die. On a success, take 1 fatigue and 1 strife. If both die succeed, take nothing.

That reduces the chance of death and does give a way to avoid the fatigue....even if the odds are low.

 

[Stalker0]

Yep, but only if the hit reduces you to 0 hp IIRC.

Oh your totally right, I missed that. Well then that makes it much less deadly and swingy then. It does give incentive though to keep players healed up, else you risk the massive death threshold.

 

[lichmaster]

Oh your totally right, I missed that. Well then that makes it much less deadly and swingy then. It does give incentive though to keep players healed up, else you risk the massive death threshold.

Well, yes and no. I mean, if you force players to be always healed up or risk massive damage, you're basically forcing your game to have short rests here and there, once spells run out. That only delays the problem. I'll probably just change the Massive Damage rule the way I see fit, I don't like useless character deaths. They just ruin the game for me.

 

[niklinna]

All this, and it's still compatible with O5E!

As for the instant-kill thing, another option would be, you immediately mark off one failed death save, rather than dying outright.

 

[lichmaster]

All this, and it's still compatible with O5E!

As for the instant-kill thing, another option would be, you immediately mark off one failed death save, rather than dying outright.

Maybe, but unless things changed, a 1 on the death save still means death... I mean one of my characters when I was a player died a few minutes after we started playing, because was critted (0 hp), failed 1 death roll, not healed immediately, and crit failed the second. Was not a fun night...
I'll most likely just add strife and fatigue

 

[Steampunkette]

So... I'm a huge fan of the "Doomed" condition. And I could see it working in this situation if you're worried combat will be too deadly.

So your 5th level fighter gets clobbered by the Hill Giant and takes over 35 points of damage, forcing a save. On a failure, the Fighter becomes Doomed instead of dead.

Doomed can be reversed with Regeneration, Heal, Revivify. Basically big healy spells. Incorporate that into the story. Have the character survive 'til the end of the Scene in which the hit lands, with certain magics capable of restoring them and putting them back on their feet. So even if they -do- die from the massive damage they get to leave with some cool words to their friends.

Or give them a couple "Scenes" in the Doomed Condition and be all Frodo carried to the Elves or Wesley and Miracle Max.

 

[Stalker0]

So... I'm a huge fan of the "Doomed" condition. And I could see it working in this situation if you're worried combat will be too deadly.

So your 5th level fighter gets clobbered by the Hill Giant and takes over 35 points of damage, forcing a save. On a failure, the Fighter becomes Doomed instead of dead.

Doomed can be reversed with Regeneration, Heal, Revivify. Basically big healy spells. Incorporate that into the story. Have the character survive 'til the end of the Scene in which the hit lands, with certain magics capable of restoring them and putting them back on their feet. So even if they -do- die from the massive damage they get to leave with some cool words to their friends.

Or give them a couple "Scenes" in the Doomed Condition and be all Frodo carried to the Elves or Wesley and Miracle Max.

So I wouldn't remove doomed with the various heals, that I think takes away the entire purpose of the condition....you are going to die, there is nothing to be done.

However, to me the plot power of doomed is it doesn't kill you until the "proper time". So in this example, the hill giant crushes you. The clerics heals you up, but whispers in your ear that part of the damage was so severe that he couldn't heal it....and in time you are going to die.

Now the DM and the player can work through that timing. Maybe its the end of the adventure, or waits until the end of the arc. What's fun is plotwise the character KNOWS they are going to die, so maybe they become reckless, maybe they become more sentimental, maybe they try to throw themselves at danger to take a hit for other party members. It becomes a significant part of the roleplaying, and allows for a truly memorable "end" to that character.


I think the issue most people have is not death but "lame death", doomed gives you the chance to have a death that matters. So yeah I like that concept a lot.