D&D (2024) Down Leveling spells, from the Expert Classes playtest.

[W'rkncacnter]

The Hunter Ranger Subclass. Its level 10 ability lets them cast Conjure Barrage with 1st and 2nd level spell slots.

oh, wow. that's cursed. i hate that.

 

[darjr]

oh, wow. that's cursed. i hate that.

Wait? Why?

 

[Minigiant]

Upcasting is rarely worth it.
Downcasting will never be.

5e has HP bloat, you need more damage not less.

 

[darjr]

Upcasting is rarely worth it.
Downcasting will never be.

5e has HP bloat, you need more damage not less.

I just had players upcast spells.

 

[James Gasik]

Upcasting isn't always the best thing to do, but there are times when it can be. Like say you're playing a PHB Sorcerer, and you can't afford to put a damage spell in every spell known.

Or you have one of those rare spells that scales pretty well with an upcast.

 

[W'rkncacnter]

Wait? Why?

a few reasons have already been said - spells should be designed from one level and then have upcasting make them better, downcasting will never be worth it, etc. - but what gets me the most is that it gives off the impression that a spell's level doesn't actually mean anything within the context of the world. like, i'd assume conjure barrage is 3rd level in the context of the world because it's particularly complicated or difficult to cast. but then rangers can just downcast it...but it's still a 3rd level spell. like...why is it a 3rd level spell, then? why not 1st level?

in other words, at least to me, it makes the spell* feel even more arbitrary then it already is. hence, it's cursed, and i hate it.

*edit: i meant spell levels, but i think you guys already knew that

 

[UngeheuerLich]

It seems like bad design. Better to build a lower-level version and upcast it.

Not necessarily, if you take multiclassing into consideration.

Possibly:
When you have reached wizard (evoker) 5, you can downcast fireball reducing damage by 2d6 for each slot below level 3.

With this rule, a single class evoker always has a very good level 1 spell at their disposal.

A wizard (evoker) level 3/fighter 2 has not.
If it was a level 1 spells, he had.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

I just had players upcast spells.

Thunderwave and burning hands upcast to level 2 are solid. Especially multiclass characters have to.

My character often upcasts colour spray. Level 3 does blind a 10d10 (55) hp foe for a round. That often makes the last round a lot less dangerous.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Upcasting is rarely worth it.
Downcasting will never be.

5e has HP bloat, you need more damage not less.

Low level foes can be very annoying in a fight against a strong enemy.
So clearing them out woth fewer ressources can be good.

But: conjure barrage is too bad a spell, as it barley does not do enough damage against very low level foes when cast at level 3...

Numbers are bad. I like the concept though.

 

[rules.mechanic]

If it's about being able to do something with your lower level slots, why not just allow 2 slots at a given level to be used as 1 slot at the level above? So if you had 2x 1st level slots, you could use them to cast a 2nd level spell (that you have prepared). And if you have 2x 1st level slots, 1x 2nd level slot and 1x 3rd level slot, you could use them all to cast a single 4th level spell (that you have prepared)...