Down with magic items!

[Jeph]

Yesterday, at NC Gameday, I participated in two games: Henry's d20 Modern game in the morning, and TheRuinedOne's Ravenloft game in the afternoon.

In the d20M game, we packed some heat. Each character got a bareta 92f, a grenade, and m16-a2 standard issue, and almost everybody used a bit of their wealth bonus to get one or two Mastercraft personal smallarms. During the adventure, we commisioned another 5 flamethrowers from Department-7 for a bit of zombie burning work. But the only magic item in the game was a plot device, a cauldron used to raise undead.

In the afternoon, the game started with the PCs in the Van Richten's Home For the Disturbed. Naturally, being 'patients,' we didn't have our gear with us. The metal batons that we took from the gaurds had to suffice, until we got our stuff bac, about halfway through. Even then, there were only two magic items between the four of us. Even though I had a keen masterwork rapier, I stuck with throwing the batons for most of the game.

And in both games, I had a blast. I guess part of what made it fun was the lack of that 'you are your gear' element that comes up so often in DnD--in d20 Modern, sure we had some frickin huge guns, but it quickly becomes obvious that the skills make the man. In the ravenloft game, we were more dependant upon our class abilities--the rogue's Sneak Attack, the paladin's Detect/Smite evil, the Sorcerer's spells, and the cleric's healing--then little quirks and benefits from potions, cloaks, girdles, bracelets, rings, boots, what have you.

So I think what I'm saying is, equipment shouldn't be the main part of a character. It should be a finishing touch, a cherry on top of the sundae, and not the icecream.

-Jeph

 

[EricNoah]

It also depends on what you're running up against. If the opponents make regular use of magical abilities or items, then it's going to be more necessary to have magical means to counter them.

 

[rounser]

Has anyone been in a campaign where a PC's intelligent sword has a more fully defined and memorable personality than it's owner...?

 

[Angcuru]

so far, yes......MY SWORD AND ME!

mostly because we've only played 4 or 5 sessions and the sword is 9,000 years old with the voice of Sean Connery!

 

[RangerWickett]

If you actively want to pursue the "no magic items" route, you might want to take at the superpowers rules in Four-Color to Fantasy. It's true that they are primarily intended for super heroes in comic-book-style adventures, but the powers are balanced for use in any sort of campaign, and we even include a chart to help you accurately convert PC magical wealth into an appropriate amount of super powers.

As characters train and level up to near-epic powers, your fighter might become inherently stronger or faster than average people, or he might develop his skin to be tougher than steel, or learn how to jump hundreds of feet at a time. This isn't magic in the sorcerous sense; it's more like mythic heroes, or characters from tons of different Japanese anime, who are able to transcend the laws of physics because they're the heroes. You can't counter these things with antimagic; they're more like those epic level skill checks in the Epic Level Handbook, only they seem more epic.

(Do you realize that the main characters in Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon would have to be at least 50th level to make those balance checks they were performing? Same for many Hong Kong action film characters. That's just silly; down with the ELH for requiring DC 80 skill checks to do things that are avaible at 3rd level with levitate spells)

Anyway, with the Four-Color to Fantasy rules, you can use whatever level of magic you're okay with. You might still hand out healing potions and such, but you could also let each character have one or two special powers, and the book will help you see what abilities are of the proper power level.

One interesting thing I did was compare the effective power levels of characters with their normal complement of magic items vs. those without, to see about how many levels worth of power magic items were equivalent to. It shouldn't come as much of a surprise that a 13th level fighter with magic items is about as strong as a 20th level character with no magic items. The lack of the +5 swords, +5 armor, +5 natural armor, +5 deflection, +5 to saves, and +6 to Strength sure weakened the character.

In my own campaign, which I decided to give a heavy air elemental-ish theme, so one adventure into a mad air mage's experiments laboratory was basically an excuse to have them all be infused with extract of air elemental, giving them the ability to fly. It's a bit of a light-hearted game, and very fun.

 

[Angcuru]

You DO kinda need that +5 Dragonscale Full Plate when you get to higher levels. kinda pointless to go fight other epic characters when your ac is somewhere between 20 and 26. or you could just go with the Forsaker class in Masters of the Wild. Maybe i'll play that next campaign...

 

[Dark Eternal]

I tried to play a character who was a take on the Renshai clan (anyone ever hear of them?)

They won't wear armor, use magic items or ranged weapons - they consider such tactics dishonorable. In their home setting, of course, they were the ultimate badasses despite these limitations.

Anyone care to guess exactly how badass my character was compared to 'normal' D&D characters?

 

[Tarrasque Wrangler]

Now let me get this straight.

You had multiple handguns, assault rifles, high explosives, and 5 flamethrowers, and you don't think you were carrying any "magic" items?

Okay, buddy.

 

[Angcuru]

In an non/low-magic setting, you just can't go wrong with a monk.

 

[Jeph]

Now let me get this straight.

You had multiple handguns, assault rifles, high explosives, and 5 flamethrowers, and you don't think you were carrying any "magic" items?

Okay, buddy.

He made three attacks in the entire game, once with a Walther ppk, one use of a flamethrower, and then the hand granade. His main characteristic was his +19 bonus to Computer Use. Durring most of the combats, he hid in the car, or under the table. Defense 13 + 12 HP + Chosen of Hastur = Get The Hell Out Of Here, if you know what I mean.

RangerWickett, I've got 4ctf, pretty nice rules. But I have my own homebrew system for Wuxia, so I'd probably use that if I ever ran a Crouching Tiger style game.

Angcuru, I'm not specifically talking about DnD. And there are plenty of ways to make it so that you don't need that +5 dragonscale armor at 20th level, or any other protective gear: house rules. Anyway, I dislike higher-level play. IMHO, it's the campaign, not the level, that makes it epic.