DR as miss chance

[maggot]

I'm thinking of revising DR in my campaign. The problem is that there aren't a lot of holy weapons in the campaign, but at the current level the party are meaeting more and more demons and devils.

Especially troublesome are demons with DR 15/cold iron and good. How many weapons fit that description.

Also, the flat DR 15 works against two-weapon fighters and archers more than against the guy with the greatsword. So I came up with this idea:

DR 5/whatever becomes DR 25%/whatever and prevents 1/4 of the damage from the attack.
DR 10/whatever becomes DR 50%/whatever and 1/2 of the damage from the attack.
DR 15/whatever becomes DR 75%/whatever and 3/4 of the damage from the attack.

Now an archer can hurt a devil with DR 15/whatever even if he doesn't have the whatever. Sure the arrows are only doing 1/4 damage, but it keeps the archer in the game.

Now calculating 3/4, 1/2, and 1/4 damage is a bit of a pain, so how about making it a mischance: as in DR 5 is a 25% mischance, DR 10 is a 50% mischance, and DR 15 is a 75% mischance.

Oh, and DR #/- stays the same so barbarians and elementals are unaffected.

 

[Zoatebix]

Interesting. Instead of unifying the skeleton 1/2 damage from slashing and piercing weapons into the existing DR system, we unify the existing DR system into how skeletons worked.

I'm not sure about the miss chance, but the first stuff seems interesting. I'm not sure how playable it is - it seems like DR becomes more powerful as the PCs get more powerful, but it's less efficent against weaker things - at least compared to the core rules as written.

 

[maggot]

My analysis

I'm not sure how playable it is - it seems like DR becomes more powerful as the PCs get more powerful, but it's less efficent against weaker things - at least compared to the core rules as written.

Thanks for the reply.

The system reduces the damage done by those that do more than 20 points of damage per hit, and increases the damage done by those that do less. So this would negatively affect:

1. The big two-handed weapon guy, but only really when he power attacks. (The 14th level fighter in my game does a little over 20 average when goes two handed.)

2. The sneak-attack guy when he is sneak attacking. (Our 14th level thief does about 30 on a average sneak attack.)

3. The paladin when smites. (14th level paladin does about 25 on a smite.)

4. The ranger versus his highest enemy (maybe, the 14th level ranger does about 20 per strike to his highest enemy).

5. Anyone that critical hits. Here there would be a big change for the game as it sits.

Who would this change benefit:

1. The archer. (Who does maybe 15 a hit and often much less.)

2. The two weapon guy. (Who does 10-15 a hit.)

3. The monk. (Who likewise does 10-15 a hit at 14th level.)

Who is unaffected:

The clerics, wizards, and sorcerers of my game that always use spells instead of weapons.

 

[Vrecknidj]

Maybe you could build into your system a special "out" for criticals.

Original System: He rolls a threat, confirms it, does his 35 points of damage, but only 20 of them apply thanks to DR.

Proposed System: He rolls a miss chance, misses it, and so the natural 20 that he was about to roll (as it were) is entirely negated.

Combined System: With DR-as-miss-chance, always roll the attack before the miss chance. If the attack is a threat, then the miss chance is reduced by 5% for each point of the threat range. So, someone with a keen kukri has a really good chance of this attack getting through the miss chance, but then a kukri doesn't do all that much damage anyway. But, what this does, is it gives a bit back to the attacker, offering a chance to overcome some of that DR on those rolls when the players are getting all wiggly and excited.

 

[Elephant]

Oils of Bless Weapon and masterwork cold iron daggers [or whatever favorite metallic weapon is preferred] will offer a means to punch through such DR.

If the party is rich enough, upgrade to magical (possibly even +1 Holy) versions of the requisite materials.

The basics for bypassing DR, though, are:

Masterwork Adamantine Blunt (magical if you're rich)
Masterwork Cold Iron (magical/holy if you're rich)
Masterwork Silver (again, magical if you're rich)

Between the Cold Iron and Silver weapons, one should be piercing and one should be slashing. Ideally, the piercing weapon should be a good-aligned weapon.

In general, keep the following handy for emergencies:

Oil of Bless Weapon
Oil of Align Weapon
Oil of Magic Weapon
Scroll of Bless Weapon (paladin)
Scroll of Align Weapon (cleric)
Scroll of Magic Weapon

Note that, for archers, Masterwork Arrows of any of the special materials can be used instead of the melee set.

I hope this helps!

 

[maggot]

Combined System: With DR-as-miss-chance, always roll the attack before the miss chance. If the attack is a threat, then the miss chance is reduced by 5% for each point of the threat range.

I'm always looking for an easier way to do things, that is why I proposed the miss chance in the first place. The player can just roll both at the same time and there is no calculation just above/below the mischance. If you want to tweek the criticals, I would say that a crit always bypasses the DR. This is much easier to do on the fly.

Actually, I was thinking of allowing magic weapons to reduce the mischance by 5% per plus, so a +5 weapon could pierce DR 15/evil 50% the time, but I didn't like the extra calcuation all that much.

 

[maggot]

Oils of Bless Weapon and masterwork cold iron daggers [or whatever favorite metallic weapon is preferred] will offer a means to punch through such DR.
<snip>
I hope this helps!

Thanks Elephant, but that's not quite what I was looking for. I understand in standard D&D this is the way to run a successful party, but I was entertaining some house rules about how to do things differently. I'm trying to run a campaign where a person without oils of bless weapon and cold iron daggers can still do something against a DR 15/evil and cold iron creature.

 

[Zoatebix]

I've been thinking about alternate DR rules for a while, and I like some of how this works. Since I have a very high-level campaign going on right now, I'd like to avoid having to re-write epic and other powerful creatures that have DR 20/something to keep them from having either immunity to all but the given type of weapon, or 100% miss chance.

Think think think... I'll be posting more here once I have the time to work some math.
-George

 

[maggot]

I've been thinking about alternate DR rules for a while, and I like some of how this works. Since I have a very high-level campaign going on right now, I'd like to avoid having to re-write epic and other powerful creatures that have DR 20/something to keep them from having either immunity to all but the given type of weapon, or 100% miss chance.

Are there any standard creatures with DR 20/something or are you playing epic? I checked the solar and the big bad demons and devils and 15 was the best I could find.

Still, you could change the numbers if you just want to incorporate DR 20/x

DR 5/x becomes 20% miss change without x (or subtract 20% off the damage)
DR 10/x becomes 40% miss change without x (or 40% off damage)
DR 15/x becomes 60% miss change without x (or 60% off damage)
DR 20/x becomes 80% miss change without x (or 80% off damage)

This tops out at DR 25/x, so maybe go with a more complex system

DR 5/x means roll 1d10, if it is a 1 or 2 you miss
DR 10/x means roll 2d10, if any is a 1 or 2 you miss
DR 15/x means roll 3d10, if it is a 1 or 2 you miss
DR 20/x means roll 4d10, if any is a 1 or 2 you miss
DR 25/x means roll 5d10, if any is a 1 or 2 you miss

This makes each DR level have a 20% mischance over the previous level (use d8s instead of d10s for 25% per level). But it does involve a lot of rolling.

These systems take more time, so you have to decide how many creatures with DR the party is going to encounter.

 

[LizardWizard]

This system involves a lot of really boring math that slows the game down.
Deletion is much harder to do than substraction and is twice more so than addition.
Unless you are willing to bring a calculator to your game, I wouldn't recommend it.