Dragon #294 in today!

[Darkness]

Arrgghhhh...Sorry, I do try to catch things like that. I must have been concentrating too hard on spelling "Erik" correctly

Heh. Let's hope that you don't write Erik Noah from now on...

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey Darkness mate!

What if a deity's home plane is the Prime Material, though?

In my estimation that won't curtail the deties abilities.

(Unless the deity in question is a demigod without an avatar, of course.)

Well I personally don't believe Demigods should be allowed Avatars.

However, if we examine 1st Ed. Manual of the Planes (the only comparative source available to us at this time) we will see that Demigods do not greatly benefit from Home Plane advantage, they don't gain double hit points.

So for a case like Iuz it may not have that great a bearing, though I do seem to recall that Iuz Home Plane is the Abyss, not the Prime Material.

 

[Aitch Eye]

Heh. Let's hope that you don't write Erik Noah from now on...

Yes, well thank you for hanging that over my head. I'm appreciating Ed Stark and Ed Greenwood more with each passing minute.

 

[Darkness]

Yes, well thank you for hanging that over my head. I'm appreciating Ed Stark and Ed Greenwood more with each passing minute.

Heh. In this case, I have to point out that, in-house, he's often called T'ed Stark...

 

[Rune]

Hey, y'all!

Would it be more convenient for me to change the subject of this thread to:

"Deities & Demigods and Epic Level discussion"?

I'll wait a day to do it, if it is, and if not...well, that's that, I guess.

 

[oliverhenshaw]

I think very early on in the hercules thread, someone metioned something about the level of god being a template. But this has not been picked upon as far as I know.

Looking at the stats for the gods in grewhark magazine, it seems clear that the type of god plays as large a role as the number of Divine Ranks.

Maybe you've all assumed this, but it's something I've seen missing from the speculation entirely.

So, Hero-deity, demigod, intermediate god etc. are templates of some kind that are linked to increments of 5 in DR.

And they provide a variety of benefits. Such as successively decreasing randomness on dice rolls, what range the divine radius is multiplied by, how long the Portfolio Sense lasts (instantaneously for demigods, DR weeks after the event for intermediate gods and DR weeks before AND after the event for major gods), and probably a host of little things including some salient divine abilities.

And it's possible that the discrepencies in the numbers of SDAs you've noticed is due to the godly status of each of them. And why does hercules, a hero-deity recieve -1 (an odd number), when all other god types seem to recieve multiples of 2? because in 3e, a zeroth level effect in any scale is given a 'score' of 1/2. That should give those of you with a taste for reverse engineering a bit more to work with.

Lastly, this may solve the avatar dilemma Upper Krust was worried about. The degree of godness determines things like how long it takes to create an avatar, how much effort and how many can be exist at once (altho dr could also figure in there, I expect the connection to be loose). And finally, the 'only' difference between a god and an avatar being the halving of divine levels? The avatar also loses the gods template and gains the demi-god template (or perhaps a template similair in power to the demigods one).


Look at some evidence for this:

Iuz (Demigod)
DR 3
Divine Aura 30ft
No Avatar

Pholtus (Intermediate God)
DR 15
Divine Aura 1500ft
Avatar:
DR 7
Divine Aura 70ft

Rao (Greater God)
DR 17
Divine Aura 17 miles
Avatar:
DR 8
Divine Aura 70ft (misprint?)

Tharizdun (Intermediate God)
DR 11
Divine Aura 1100ft
Avatar:
DR 5
Divine Aura 50ft

Rao's Avatar looks a little suspect, but the point is all the avatars have a DA with a radius in multiples of 10', irrespective of the status of the deity. You could use the number of SDAs given to gods and to avatars to see if they're explained well by "God Status Templates" giving modifiers to number known.

I think they're posted in an earlier message, but it's late and i can hardly spell now.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey there oliver!

I think very early on in the hercules thread, someone metioned something about the level of god being a template. But this has not been picked upon as far as I know.

Looking at the stats for the gods in grewhark magazine, it seems clear that the type of god plays as large a role as the number of Divine Ranks.

Maybe you've all assumed this, but it's something I've seen missing from the speculation entirely.

I think you must have missed the previous thread about Hercules:

http://www.enworld.org/messageboards/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5810

So, Hero-deity, demigod, intermediate god etc. are templates of some kind that are linked to increments of 5 in DR.

Hero-deity = Divine Rank 0
Demi-deity = Divine Rank 1-5
Lesser Deity = Divine Rank 6-10
Intermediate Deity = Divine Rank 11-15
Greater Deity = Divine Rank 16-20
Uber-deity = Divine Rank 21+

And they provide a variety of benefits. Such as successively decreasing randomness on dice rolls, what range the divine radius is multiplied by, how long the Portfolio Sense lasts (instantaneously for demigods, DR weeks after the event for intermediate gods and DR weeks before AND after the event for major gods), and probably a host of little things including some salient divine abilities.

I think what we have noticed so far; Divine Rank affects:

- BAB
- Damage
- Saves
- Checks
- AC
- Domain Power uses/day
- Spell resistance 32 + Divine Rank
- Damage Reduction 35 + Divine Rank/+4
- Level of Spell Like Abilities 10 + Divine Rank
- Automatic Actions
- Avatar (Half Divine Rank, rounded down)

- Possibly the # of Salient Divine Abilities too!?

And it's possible that the discrepencies in the numbers of SDAs you've noticed is due to the godly status of each of them. And why does hercules, a hero-deity recieve -1 (an odd number), when all other god types seem to recieve multiples of 2? because in 3e, a zeroth level effect in any scale is given a 'score' of 1/2. That should give those of you with a taste for reverse engineering a bit more to work with.

I think we speculated that some of the Divine Salient Abilities were worth more or less than one slot (Hercules Indomitable Strength could equal 2 slots etc.)

Lastly, this may solve the avatar dilemma Upper Krust was worried about.

Which one!?

The degree of godness determines things like how long it takes to create an avatar, how much effort and how many can be exist at once (altho dr could also figure in there, I expect the connection to be loose).

How can you know this from the information we have so far (Dragon* and Game Trade Magazine*)

*Neither of which I have yet personally seen!

And finally, the 'only' difference between a god and an avatar being the halving of divine levels? The avatar also loses the gods template and gains the demi-god template (or perhaps a template similair in power to the demigods one).

The problem with that synopsis is that in the entries for Avatars it says something like "as per the god except for...etc."

So it would appear the only difference between god and Avatar is Divine Ranks...though I imagine there is certainly more to it than that!

Look at some evidence for this:

Iuz (Demigod)
DR 3
Divine Aura 30ft
No Avatar

Pholtus (Intermediate God)
DR 15
Divine Aura 1500ft
Avatar:
DR 7
Divine Aura 70ft

Rao (Greater God)
DR 17
Divine Aura 17 miles
Avatar:
DR 8
Divine Aura 70ft (misprint?)

Tharizdun (Intermediate God)
DR 11
Divine Aura 1100ft
Avatar:
DR 5
Divine Aura 50ft

Rao's Avatar looks a little suspect, but the point is all the avatars have a DA with a radius in multiples of 10', irrespective of the status of the deity. You could use the number of SDAs given to gods and to avatars to see if they're explained well by "God Status Templates" giving modifiers to number known.

I agree there are factors we do not yet know about:

Divine Aura.

Demi-deity: Divine Aura = Divine Rank x10ft.
Lesser Deity: Divine Aura = Divine Rank x10ft. (?)
Intermediate Deity: Divine Aura = Divine Rank x100ft.
Greater Deity: Divine Aura = Divine Rank 1 mile.
Uber-deity: Divine Aura = Divine Rank x?.

Salient Divine Abilities.

A change of Status (eg. Demigod to Lesser God) may carry additional credence but that doesn't explain why Iuz (Divine Rank 3) has 4 SDA and Hercules (Divine Rank 5) has 5 SDA!?

I think they're posted in an earlier message, but it's late and i can hardly spell now.

I know that feeling!