Dragon 300 a bad idea

[jester47]

Yes, I have.



I'm speaking mainly of the "How Far Will You Take It?" Article. The article promotes the use of slavery, torture, and even the "threat" of rape by PC's as long as the group agrees on it.

It does not promote it. At least in my reading of it. I think it suggests that it is a possibility if (and only if) everyone in the group is ok with it. "If" is a very powerful word. There is a world of difference between these three sentences:

Play a game that has detailed descriptions of rape torture and slavery and where it can even happen to the players.

Play a game that has detailed descriptions of rape torture and slavery and where it can even happen to the PC if the players can handle it.

If the players can handle it and everyone is comfortable with it you might want to consider playing a game that has detailed descriptions of rape torture and slavery and where it can even happen to the players.

The first two promote it. The last suggests. There is a big difference between promotion and suggestion. If you cant make that distinction between promotion (in that it condones) and suggestion (in that is makes a statement of possibility) then I man I'm sorry.

That is not the only purpose of the material as quoted by the above article. In addition, a side bar suggests that PCs to take feats from the Book of Vile Darkness (in a "vile" campaign) and can even pledge their allegiance to an evil god.

Is there somthing wrong with that? So how would you explain Darth Vader. You don't have that character without him falling to and serving evil.

No, I am not against NPCs being evil. I'm against promoting evil PCs and committing "imaginary" atrocities. That is just wrong.

So DMs can commit atrocities but not players? Stephen Kings worse fear is that all the people he has "Killed" in his books will come after him. Is George Lucas bad because he killed Obi Wan Kenobi and Blew up a planet? Come on man, wake up!

Aaron.

 

[Furn_Darkside]

Respectfully submitted as my personal opinion, and without attempt to force my morality on anyone else..

*chuckle*

Kind of sad that people feel the need to put such disclaimers on their posts on these boards.

FD

 

[Zappo]

Two high school students a few miles down the road from me felt the same way. The went to Columbine High School.

Now, you most likely won't go to a school and kill 13 other people. The point is, those thoughts are not healthy ones to cultivate.

It is healthy to be want to be heroic an aspire to better things.

My point in this thread is to encourage eveyone to BETTER behavior. Evil NPCs should be evil and the PCs should strive to overcome them. However, the "How Far Will You Go" article does not make that point. The theme of that article is that eveything is OK if everyone in the group is comfortable with it. I disagree.

Tell me, how is playing a good PC "better behavior" than playing an evil PC?

 

[SemperJase]

Spare me. It demeans and cheapens the death of all of the victims of those poor, twisted kids to use them for such a transparently fallacious forensic trick. Shame on you. I'm sorry, but I really just can't put it in any more diplomatic terms than that.

It is well documented that these two children had and developed theses murder/suicided fantasies. How is that not relevant? I doubt the parents and family of the victims would take issue with my pointing out where these two started to go wrong. This admittedly extreme example is an illustration of why we should direct our energies in positive directions.

For Dragon to encourage negative fantasies is harmful to the hobby as well as to its participants who take that advice.

 

[ForceUser]

*chuckle*

Kind of sad that people feel the need to put such disclaimers on their posts on these boards.

FD

Because you can't convey tone on the internet, such disclaimers are necessary so that illiterate people understand you're not trying to flame anyone. I don't usually post disclaimers and I try to avoid typing things such as IMO and IMHO, because a literate person should know that what I'm typing is, in fact, my opinion by very fact that I am expressing it. I've noticed that with regards to Netiquette, however, if you don't preface or end a comment with IMO or its trashy ilk, many people will come to the conclusion that instead of simply expressing your opinion, you're trying to impose your opinion on them. Sad, really.

So I think its a necessary evil due to the leveling effect of the internet. To misquote Grant Morrison, "On the internet everyone is equally stupid." My own posts, naturally, sometimes incite flames because I don't usually mollycoddle people with emotes and trite disclaimers. I simply state my opinion.

Anyway, back to your regularly scheduled heated discussion.

 

[Green Knight]

Finding a creative outlet for your darkside is much more healthy, IMHO, than bottling all up inside yourself so it can fester.

Honestly, if people really had a "darkside" which they needed to express, or else they'd EXPLODE one day into a violent rage, then society would be a THOUSAND times more violent than it is, now. The vast majority of people manage to live productive, normal lives without requiring an "outlet" for their supposed darkside. Which tells me your average joe DOESN'T have a darkside, much less one which is festering. Something tells me that those folks with said darkside are people who got emotional problems to begin with.

Anyway, I'm still disturbed by that pic of the Halfling who cracked open some critters skull causing his brain to show, so it's been a while since I've bought a Dragon. However, I got no problem with giving stuff on making more memorable villains, and am very much looking forward to the Book of Vile Darkness. But evil PC's? No thanks. I've played in said campaigns, many many times, and they always sucked.

 

[Furn_Darkside]

Sad, really.

Thank you for the expanded thoughts on the issue- I agree.

I was tempted to use the initials of your nickname in my response, but those two letters could be seen as profane. haha.

FD

 

[SemperJase]

Tell me, how is playing a good PC "better behavior" than playing an evil PC?

Because you are practicing positive behavior. Just as a therapist has you practice overcoming your shyness, or a trainer has you roleplay taking calls in call center to become better at it. The behavior you practice becomes the behavior you display.

Playing evil PCs has you practicing mistreatment of others. You may not end up committing murder, but you will have practiced and by extension become better at mistreating others. That may lead to something as seemingly trivial at cutting in line at the theater. Still that action has disrespected others and is not an improvement in the world.

 

[ForceUser]

Thank you for the expanded thoughts on the issue- I agree.

I was tempted to use the initials of your nickname in my response, but those two letters could be seen as profane. haha.

FD

Haha, I know! Had I realized, I would have chosen a different moniker

 

[alsih2o]

The behavior you practice becomes the behavior you display.

this is getting emberassing, it seems that you are making the argument that many who wanted to ban the game take.

i have cast many a spell in game, none in real life. i have chopped up many bad guys in game without becoming an axe-weilding maniac. i have worshipped many a god thru my charcters but remain an atheist.

maybe you should reconsider this statement.