Dragon 300 a bad idea

[SemperJase]

I am extremely disappointed that Dragon took its 300th landmark issue in the direction they did. Promoting "vile" play is not the direction this society much less this hobby needs to go.

I find it strange that a few months ago, the editorial staff took a stand on the morality of federal prisoners (murderers, rapists, and thugs included) not getting access to their magazine while promoting the supposed virtues of the hobby. Now the magazine turns around and says that "vile" campaigns that include issues of rape and murder are acceptable as long as the players are all comfortable with it. That is just sick. No wonder prison wardens are prohibiting the magazine to people who are already have a lack of morals. With Dragon #300 I have to say they are doing the right thing.

Tracey Hickman had a good point in his news letter. When thinking about September 11th, would you rather be a firefighter or a terrorist? If the latter, you have some serious issues. By playing in an evil campaign you are saying "I want to be the terrorist".

How do you combat evil? Our President suggested you do that by embracing good. I agree. Spurn evil (i.e. terrorist) campaigns and play the good guys. And let Dragon magazine know they need to clean up their act.

 

[Furn_Darkside]

I agree with you, but this thread is going to lead to nothing but trouble.

I hope the new owners stop the slightly-disturbing trend of the Dragon magazine. From profanity on the cover, to grotesque ads, and this issue is not the slope I want to visit.

FD

 

[Henry]

I don't want to get into a big discussion of this issue, especially since I do not yet have that issue of the magazine, but I will say that the articles on evil in campaigns are not just for playing evil campaigns, but also include introducing evil NPC's or NPC parties into campaigns, all of which are definitely worthwhile if you wish to flesh out your campaigns in this way.

I prefer not to pass decision on this until everything is out, but I will reiterate that the staff of Dragon has said before that this is not a "permanent direction" for the magazine or the game - it's an experiment, an attempt to push boundaries, and if they find a boundary that pushes too far for their readers, they will not do so regardless.

(This is the point where barsoomcore should break in yelling, "MORE CORPSE NOOKIE!" )

 

[GILGAMESH]

I agree with you, but this thread is going to lead to nothing but trouble.

I hope the new owners stop the slightly-disturbing trend of the Dragon magazine. From profanity on the cover, to grotesque ads, and this issue is not the slope I want to visit.

FD

Your a wise man Furn_Darkside. I agree.

 

[ForceUser]

My impression is that this material has been introduced to the hobby to elevate heroic PCs.

That's right.

The more vile the villain, the more heroic the PC when he vanquishes him. As I understand it, the upcoming Book of Vile Darkenss, upon which the Dragon #300 material is based, only makes reference to evil PCs in passing, since that is beyond the scope of standard D&D. Instead, the book focuses on helping the DM present bad guys as diabolical and despicable as the DM and group are comfortable with. At the end of the day, they are still there to be defeated.

 

[Mathew_Freeman]

By playing in an evil campaign you are saying "I want to be the terrorist".

No, by playing in an evil campaign, you are saying "I'm sick of being a nice paladin all the time, let's be the evil types, plot the destruction of nations <i>in a game</i> and have a bit of fun in that way.

This does not make you a supporter of terrorism. I am totally against terrorism in real life. But if you're playing in a game, and everyone remembers its a game, and no one objects, and you don't run around the street telling everyone what fun you had killing a million people in your game last night, what's the problem?

Oh, and I'm English, so talk about Our President does not apply to me.

I really appreciate that the US has a totally different reaction to 9/11 than the UK. I understand that people will feel much more strongly about this than I do. But please remember to seperate out <i>stuff in real life</i> and <i>stuff in a game</i>.

The whole issue of people in prison playing RPG's I'm not sure about, so don't quote me in this post relating to that subject. I'm still kind of torn between "people in prison don't suffer enough, prisons ought to be really bad places" and "people in prison should be able to better themselves and playing D&D is a good way of doing it". I'd tend to agree that letting <b>some</b> prisoners get access to Dragon 300 is a bad idea, but you enter that wonderful world of Grey Areas which people can argue all day.

I look forward to seeing where this thread goes.

 

[Mathew_Freeman]

From profanity on the cover

Exactly what profanity are we talking about here? Is this going back to "Warriors kick ass!" again?

 

[The Serge]

Have you read the magazine yet?

Anyway, I think you, like many others in the past on this and similar topics, are missing the point. The "vile" material included in this magazine (and the upcoming Book of Vile Darkness) are not intended for Players, necessarily. The material is intended to be used by DMs to challenge PCs. For Dungeon Masters who want advice and "official" suggestions/rulings on how to add mature content to their game, DRAGON Magazine 300 and BoVD provide those resources.

You (and others) seem to be reacting the same way certain religious groups and activist groups reacted to the Monster Manual years ago. You look at the book/magazine/text and assume that since the material is "evil," "vile," or otherwise not "good," that that's the goal for the Players. If that's the position you've taken, you're wrong.

The goal is to provide more meaningful threats and evil for Players to combat and defeat. Most players want to be the firefighters and police officers who either save victims from buring, collapsing buildings, or kill/subdue the terrorists that persist in trying to harm the innocent. This magazine and the upcoming BoVD provide the villains with even greater evil in order to make their overall defeat all the more meaningful.

From what I've heard, most (if not all) of the material in this book is more "gross" than "mature." Additionally, this is October... Every year I can think of, DRAGON went dark and grim. How's this year's issue any different?

I'm tired of these threads from overreacting, apparently short-sighted people.

 

[Thorntangle]

I agree with you, but this thread is going to lead to nothing but trouble.

I heard there was trouble here - can I help contribute to the trouble?

Brand re-imaging is great. Dark, adult, new look, new feel. I can see the marketing meetings now - "We want to be edgy. Think edge. Monte, call and make reservations on the edge because we want to be there next Tuesday."

Really, the religious right v. D&D battle is over. Winners? None. I think it's fine that one of the options for the game is to have some published dark content. D&D has settled into it's niche in culture and very little is going to change the public's perception of the game.

 

[Melkor Lord Of ALL!]

I play evil because I find it FUN! It is fun to have absolute power over others, over those weaklings that tremble before you, fun to rule , to posess, to fullfill one`s desires, to ruthlessly destroy those that dare to stand on your way and all other things that I can`t do in real life!