Dragon 300 a bad idea

[jester47]

In the word of the Great Gygax:

Poppycock!

Dragon 300 does not glorify playing evil characters. It shows the options available and presents things the fact that evil people places and things are willing to make tradeoffs for power no matter the cost to their own humanity. The same is true for the terrorist examples. The only article that I can find in the issue that might be misconstrued as condoning evil and vile PCs is the one that details how to play the game in four different ways. Those ways are Lighthearted, Standard, Mature, and Vile. That is 75% suggestions for non vile content in games and if you read the descriptions stated it takes some sick individuals to play a truely vile campaign.

Aaron.

 

[Henry]

/me pulls up a seat and roasts some marshmallows on the flames that this thread is about to go down.

Not necessarily - as long as everyone plays nice.

However, I do feel this discussion topic is not going to go away until sometime in December...

 

[SemperJase]

Have you read the magazine yet?

Yes, I have.

Anyway, I think you, like many others in the past on this and similar topics, are missing the point. The "vile" material included in this magazine (and the upcoming Book of Vile Darkness) are not intended for Players, necessarily.

I'm speaking mainly of the "How Far Will You Take It?" Article. The article promotes the use of slavery, torture, and even the "threat" of rape by PC's as long as the group agrees on it.

The material is intended to be used by DMs to challenge PCs.

That is not the only purpose of the material as quoted by the above article. In addition, a side bar suggests that PCs to take feats from the Book of Vile Darkness (in a "vile" campaign) and can even pledge their allegiance to an evil god.

You (and others) seem to be reacting the same way certain religious groups and activist groups reacted to the Monster Manual years ago. You look at the book/magazine/text and assume that since the material is "evil," "vile," or otherwise not "good," that that's the goal for the Players. If that's the position you've taken, you're wrong.

No, I am not against NPCs being evil. I'm against promoting evil PCs and committing "imaginary" atrocities. That is just wrong.

 

[Dr_Rictus]

That is 75% suggestions for non vile content in games and if you read the descriptions stated it takes some sick individuals to play a truely vile campaign.

Or just good actors. There really are people who can take on the roles of truly vile individuals, enjoy doing it, and yet be good, well-adjusted people themselves. Some of them get paid exceptionally large amounts of money for doing so.

There are also probably lots of people who couldn't do that except by way of indulging in some pretty unhealthy power fantasies. They shouldn't be encouraged. But it's simply fallacious to say that role-playing truly evil characters, or promoting techniques of doing so, is categorically wrong.

 

[MeepoTheMighty]

I find it strange that a few months ago, the editorial staff took a stand on the morality of federal prisoners (murderers, rapists, and thugs included) not getting access to their magazine while promoting the supposed virtues of the hobby. Now the magazine turns around and says that "vile" campaigns that include issues of rape and murder are acceptable as long as the players are all comfortable with it. That is just sick. No wonder prison wardens are prohibiting the magazine to people who are already have a lack of morals. With Dragon #300 I have to say they are doing the right thing.

Those are some nice stones you're throwing there. Were you the first?

Those same "murderers, rapists, and thugs" have ready access to drugs. Which would you rather have them spending their cigarettes on?

Wouldn't you rather have a "murderer/thug/rapist" have access to a hobby which promotes reading skills, math, history, and creativity?

Not to mention the fact that not all prisoners are guilty.... and not all prisoners are "muderers, rapists, and thugs."

Can the holier-than-thou judgements and let other people do what they want.

Originally posted by Furn_Darkside
I hope the new owners stop the slightly-disturbing trend of the Dragon magazine. From profanity on the cover, to grotesque ads, and this issue is not the slope I want to visit.

What profanity? The word "ass"? Or do you mean the shocking lewdness of that world-creating goddess? Or did the shirtless man make you feel like a sissy? Seriously, I don't know what could offend you. And I don't know what grotesque ads you're talking about either. If they're there, I honestly haven't noticed them.

 

[Benben]

No, I am not against NPCs being evil. I'm against promoting evil PCs and committing "imaginary" atrocities. That is just wrong.

Like genocide? Or perhaps eradicating a village or Orcs or Kobolds?

 

[SemperJase]

I play evil because I find it FUN! It is fun to have absolute power over others, over those weaklings that tremble before you, fun to rule , to posess, to fullfill one`s desires, to ruthlessly destroy those that dare to stand on your way and all other things that I can`t do in real life!

Two high school students a few miles down the road from me felt the same way. The went to Columbine High School.

Now, you most likely won't go to a school and kill 13 other people. The point is, those thoughts are not healthy ones to cultivate.

It is healthy to be want to be heroic an aspire to better things.

My point in this thread is to encourage eveyone to BETTER behavior. Evil NPCs should be evil and the PCs should strive to overcome them. However, the "How Far Will You Go" article does not make that point. The theme of that article is that eveything is OK if everyone in the group is comfortable with it. I disagree.

 

[Furn_Darkside]

Exactly what profanity are we talking about here? Is this going back to "Warriors kick ass!" again?

Yes, that is what I was referring to in my post.

FD

 

[Melkor Lord Of ALL!]

By the way, one of the funnier things with playing evil is a chance to have sex slaves and things like this. It might be because I am a person with complexes about such subjects in real life.

 

[Desdichado]

My point in this thread is to encourage eveyone to BETTER behavior. Evil NPCs should be evil and the PCs should strive to overcome them. However, the "How Far Will You Go" article does not make that point. The theme of that article is that eveything is OK if everyone in the group is comfortable with it. I disagree.

Actually, it's better not to judge others (especially by their games -- WTF?!?) or tell them how to think or what to do. But maybe that's just me.