Dragon #361 and Dungeon #152 news

[Wik]

I think the big thing is, they're saying "we're gonna give you these magazines for free for a while, and then you'll love 'em so much that you're going to want to pay".

And then they don't release anything. Makes me, I dunno, not want to pay.

I reallize there's a hectic environment over there, but yeah, they should have a dragon STAFF. Not a game designer trying to get other game designers to contribute something.

The two dungeon adventures have been great. I really like Hell's Heart's format - that's something you can do in a PDF, where pages are free, that you couldn't do in a print format. And Tjosjanth (or however it's written) is pretty nifty, too.

But when someone has to post and say "yeah, we're working on it, I've just been sick, and, yeah, it's going to be out, you'll love it, and...", I dunno. It makes me wish Paizo was still at the helms.

Of course, nothing is going to change that, but that's beside the point.

 

[Echohawk]

But on the plus side, us overseas readers are getting the Dragon and Dungeon content at the same time as the rest of you. It is a major plus for me to be able to read the articles as they are being discussed on ENWorld, instead of weeks or months later.

I'm definitely willing to overlook a few format/technology stumbles for this significant benefit.

 

[Khairn]

*It'll be awesome soon, trust me
*hedging with the fact that your devs are overworked
*trying to mitigate with Design and Development articles you would have done anyway

They talked about wowing us with the new Dungeon and Dragon. They need to be wowing us to show that they're serious about this part of their strategy. They're not wowing - they're getting by and hedging about how long it will take to do more than that.

Pretty accurate analysis, at least from this side of the monitor.

Given the poor showing from these first couple of e-zines, and the decision to spread future e-zines out over a 2 month period, it seems to me that WotC is willing to accept producing a mediocre product while they gear up for 4E-Dun and 4E-Drag.
I think this is ultimately acceptable to WotC as they see very little to gain from a really kick-ass set of e-zines that uses the 3E system.

 

[Vigilance]

And yet, amazingly enough, before that, Dungeon and Dragon were coming out in a timely fashion and in many people's eyes, better than ever, WHILE WoTC put out products.

How's that happen? It almost sounds like you're saying they're either supremely overconfident and have been caught with their pants down or that hey, they don't need to hire additional hands or anything because it's just part of the DI now and it's not that important and we should be glad we're getting anything and to give them MORE time to get it together.

But if they can't do it now, while the heat is realtively... low and they've had months of warnings (not to mention that it'd be hugely surprising if they didn't know ahead of the announcement itself), how are they going to be able to handle it, and expect people to PAY for it when the crunch really comes?

Huh? The "heat" is low now?

I'm saying the articles are fine, not great, but fine, but that perception is colored by the fact that 3.5 isn't the new game.

Their busiest time is right now, they're working on three core books for a new edition of the game.

The "heat", as you describe it, is definitely not low now.

As for them being "overconfident", I don't really know what to say to that. Are you saying they should have let Paizo keep making the magazines until after 4e released? Even though they're dividing their attention right now, I don't think that would be a good idea myself.

Better to let folks know where to look for the magazines and what to expect in terms of release timing and such.

Basically, you're ascribing all kinds of motives to them that you have absolutely no proof for.

Chuck

 

[Ry]

Huh? The "heat" is low now?

For web resources, yes. There will be more need for on-time delivery of a lot of different things on their website in the month leading up to and following 4e. That's when the heat will be on for web resources.

Basically, you're ascribing all kinds of motives to them that you have absolutely no proof for.

He's just trying to understand your defence of WotC - the scenarios Joe put out were just to try to square what you said with what they said.

I think WotC's motivated by a desire to make 4e a big success and establish a continuous revenue stream with an online content service. These are fine goals. They'd be my goals if I was in their place. I just don't think they're being smart about the strategy for the second goal.

 

[Olaf the Stout]

<snip>And that ladies and gentlemen is what can happen when you lose people who are passionate about their product (mona, jacobs, logue, pett)

I personally don't think that WotC are doing a very good job with Dungeon or Dragon at the moment. However, I do feel the need to point out that Nicholas Logue has already had 1 adventure put out via the online version of Dungeon. From what I know, WotC plan to keep using a lot of the authors that Paizo used so you may be a little off base there (although I don't know if Mona and Jacobs will be writing for them).

Olaf the Stout

 

[cougent]

"You never get a second chance to make a first impression"
I give you Dragon #360 and Dungeon #151

Honestly, I give each a 4 out of 10, maybe a 6 since they were free.
That is not a WOW first impression, but these are "test issues", ok I will cut them some slack for that.

The last FREE issue will actually be a second chance to WOW me, it should be at least an 8.5 to encourage people to subscribe, if not better. (An argument could be made that it should be a solid 10 in order to generate hype and gain subscribers, even if it then falls back some)

*IF* I subscribe to the DI, it will be primarily for the Ezines, so if they do not meet the grade, the subscription will go away quickly.

 

[WhatGravitas]

For a simple comparison what they are capable of doing: Wizards' MtG-website. Everyday a random fact/art snippet, a high-res wallpaper each Friday, several daily columns, so you get at least one article everyday - the weekly columns are:

Monday:
Feature Article - something random each week.
Making Magic - article my Mark Rosewater, the head design honcho of them.

Tuesday:
Limited Information - a tournament column for limited games, often with examples
Serious Fun - a column for casual/multiplayer games.

Wednesday:
Taste the Magic - flavour column, a column I read often, because you can use the flavour snippets even for D&D.
Building on Budget - how to build a deck without 1000$ of money

Thursday:
Swimming with Sharks - a tournament column for constructed games
House of Cards - a column of creative/fun decks, mainly casual

Friday:
Latest Developments - usually a look at cards and "how have arrived at that"
The Week That Was - basically a recap of important Magic events
_______________________________

That's two columns/articles per day - and for free. They have a mix, the design-interested have something, the flavour/casual people, the tournament guys. So Wizards can pull off a well-designed, interesting homepage.

Sure, you cannot apply everything from a CCG website to a RPG website, but you can invest an equal amount of production quality. Especially, if you compare a free website with a soon-to-be-paid-content website.

And don't say that 50% of the MtG website is some more or less thinly veiled advertisement, because, let's face it, many articles from Dragon/Dungeon are similar. Adventures only serve the purpose to get people playing - an adventure is nothing but an incentive to play their game. Some crunchy bits, with hints of more later or in the newest splatbook - serve their purpose.

Especially in this phase, where everything is a free preview for the things to come.

Now, this sounds harsh - and don't get me wrong: I want the DI to succeed, I want 4E to become good, I want that Wizards do their advertisement right. But I only compare them with their own efforts.

Cheers, LT.

 

[delericho]

"You never get a second chance to make a first impression"

Exactly. Since WotC have so much riding on the Digital Initiative, and since the online magazines represent one of the key pillars in that strategy, they really needed to come out of the gates running. Furthermore, given the level of bad feeling that was generated by cancelling the print magazines, they would have done themselves a world of good by making sure the first electronic issues were the best they possibly could be.

Unfortunately, they dropped the ball.

 

[Dice4Hire]

Yeah, I have been totally unimpressed with WOTC's treatment of D&D

Take D&D as Dungeons and Dragons, game, or pair of magazines