Dragon #361 and Dungeon #152 news

[PoeticJustice]

I wish I could say that I was disappointed in Dragon 360 and Dungeon 151, but that would imply that they are a recognizable iteration of the publication. As such, they are not.

See, I liked the adventures but ultimately they're not what makes a Dungeon magazine a Dungeon Magazine.

Dungeoncraft was a 4E ad
There were no comics. There was a map of mystery, but no critical threat or Campaign Workbook.

I recognize that Design and Dev. was included in the issue for "free" but since I've gotten that for free every week for the past few years, I can't think of it as a monthly feature in a preview section of what will be a pay-per-month service.

 

[freyar]

Well, a lot of people have said more or less what I wanted to say, so I'll keep it brief.

Dungeon's content was pretty good (at least Hell's Heart, though I liked Quoth the Raven better -- sadly haven't had the chance to read Tsojcanth yet b/c I share the computer with the wife). However, I don't like the delve format on the whole. The layout for the encounters is actually pretty good, but having them as an "appendix" to the adventure really ruins the continuity of the storyline for reading. Having links in the PDF might help, though the files are so large it takes a while for acrobat to jump pages on my computer. Also, there's a real reduction of other articles, which the old Dungeon had.

Dragon. Yes, MerricB has a point that Dragon has been more spotty on the whole, but Paizo really made sure to have a blow out last print issue. I would have thought WotC would want to have a great issue for the premier digital issue. They just seem to be treating this like it's unimportant to their job.

Last point: let's just note that the articles that get the most kudos so far have been written by free-lancers. The content that WotC has had in-house has been ok but not great.

 

[Scribble]

I agree wholeheartedly with what Merric said. Dragon, as it was at one time is pretty much no longer. At one time it was THE place to find new rules concepts, advice, game aids, etc... But the official rule books and OGL have pretty much taken that role.

Here's where I see the new Dragon shining:

1. Every article available at the click of a button.

2. Easy to archive, and gather the articles you need for YOUR game.

3. Easy to search for just what you want.

4. More content overall. (While it's slow now, I'm guessing that won't be the case after things get going.)

5. Maybe most importantly system integration. If there's a new rule or feat offered in the mags, I'm betting it'll be easily integrated into your character/encounter generators.

6. New types of content. Look at the beholder flash content... This opens dragon up to a whole new world of artists that never got to shine before. Maybe you're a musician that makes background music for games? Or you make short video clips about gaming? Dragon + Trogdore???

The issue is that right now, since there's no 4e, the system tools designed for 4e haven't been released yet. So all they can give us are articles.

But that's not the whole thing of the new dragon. As such they seem bare and silly. But you just need to stop thinking about it like a paper magazine. That's not what it is anymore, nor should it try to emulate a paper magazine.

It's a content delivery system. It's not limited to what a paper magazine is limited to.

Once they get to kick in all of its features I'm guessing it's going to be crazy.

Thats also why I'm guessing they're so excited about it. They see what it can do, but they sort of have their hands tied.

 

[Mouseferatu]

The other thing to keep in mind about Dragon Online is that it can't fulfill one of its primary purposes yet.

If Dragon is, among other things, a source of new mechanics... Then by definition, that aspect of the magazine is hampered until 4E is out. They can do previews, but they can't really introduce truly new 4E mechanics, and there's not a lot of cause to be introducing new 3E mechanics at this stage.

Personally, I'll be interested in seeing what Dragon looks like as of June.

 

[freyar]

The other thing to keep in mind about Dragon Online is that it can't fulfill one of its primary purposes yet.

If Dragon is, among other things, a source of new mechanics... Then by definition, that aspect of the magazine is hampered until 4E is out. They can do previews, but they can't really introduce truly new 4E mechanics, and there's not a lot of cause to be introducing new 3E mechanics at this stage.

Personally, I'll be interested in seeing what Dragon looks like as of June.

That's all true, I'm sure, but unfortunately we probably won't get a free preview in June. WotC needs to convince us before 4e that they'll have Dungeon, Dragon, and the rest of D&DI working and worthwhile by the time they start charging. I'm certainly willing to give them until then, but cutting the magazines to 1 per 2 months isn't encouraging. It basically says that they didn't and still don't have their act together.

 

[Scribble]

WotC needs to convince us before 4e that they'll have Dungeon, Dragon, and the rest of D&DI working and worthwhile by the time they start charging.

Why?

If it's cool enough when they start charging people will buy it.

 

[Zaukrie]

How will I know how cool it is? Unless I can peruse it on-line for free, I'll have no idea how cool it is at all (well, I'm sure people will post opinions, but that isn't the same as seeing it - this timeframe is a chance at a preview, you can argue that all you want, but many of us feel that way, and little logic can change our feelings).

 

[Scribble]

How will I know how cool it is? Unless I can peruse it on-line for free, I'll have no idea how cool it is at all (well, I'm sure people will post opinions, but that isn't the same as seeing it - this timeframe is a chance at a preview, you can argue that all you want, but many of us feel that way, and little logic can change our feelings).

The same way people sell other stuff online?

They tell you the features... They show you screen shots... Give you preview blurbs.

Word of mouth. Advertisements.

I'm not saying you have to be super excited about it... Maybe it's not your thing. Maybe you won't ever buy it. But saying WOTC has to give out free stuff now or it's doomed to failure... Is a little strange to me.

Right now I think Online Dragon is kind of like a computer without any programs on it... Someone who doesn't know about computers might say.. this thing is lame... It doesn't do anything...

But once the owner starts putting programs on there it starts looking better and better, and doing more and more.

Plus you have to compare the DDI as a whole to paper dragon/dungeon. Because DDI and Dragon/Dungeon are now one in the same.

 

[Wolfspider]

I agree wholeheartedly with what Merric said. Dragon, as it was at one time is pretty much no longer. At one time it was THE place to find new rules concepts, advice, game aids, etc... But the official rule books and OGL have pretty much taken that role.

Here's where I see the new Dragon shining:

1. Every article available at the click of a button.

2. Easy to archive, and gather the articles you need for YOUR game.

3. Easy to search for just what you want.

4. More content overall. (While it's slow now, I'm guessing that won't be the case after things get going.)

5. Maybe most importantly system integration. If there's a new rule or feat offered in the mags, I'm betting it'll be easily integrated into your character/encounter generators.

6. New types of content. Look at the beholder flash content... This opens dragon up to a whole new world of artists that never got to shine before. Maybe you're a musician that makes background music for games? Or you make short video clips about gaming? Dragon + Trogdore???

The issue is that right now, since there's no 4e, the system tools designed for 4e haven't been released yet. So all they can give us are articles.

But that's not the whole thing of the new dragon. As such they seem bare and silly. But you just need to stop thinking about it like a paper magazine. That's not what it is anymore, nor should it try to emulate a paper magazine.

It's a content delivery system. It's not limited to what a paper magazine is limited to.

Once they get to kick in all of its features I'm guessing it's going to be crazy.

Thats also why I'm guessing they're so excited about it. They see what it can do, but they sort of have their hands tied.

You stir the ashes of my optimism, sir.

 

[JoeGKushner]

He's just trying to understand your defence of WotC - the scenarios Joe put out were just to try to square what you said with what they said.

Hey, someone who read what I wrote. Thumbs up. I'm getting tired of 4e apologists I tell ya.