Dragon #361 and Dungeon #152 news

[Wolfspider]

I think that if if WotC can't handle doing Dragon and Dungeon right, then they either shouldn't have taken over from Paizo or they should be using enough people to do it right. Considering that this is a period when 4e is being worked on furiously, I would have that that they would have hired more people to pick up the slack. At least they could have hired an extra computer techie type to handle the online mags and do things like making sure the online magazines have a TOC that can be updated. Instead, it looks like making the magazines user-friendly and more readable is a job that someone might get to maybe sometime soon hopefully.

I have no need for a digital tabletop. The only reason I'm excited about the DI is because of the online magazines. As I'm sure you guys know, I love things in electronic format. Heck, I was annoyingly supportive of the magazines moving online. The hype was huge. The promises were extensive. The new online magazines are, as a whole, disappointing.

I remember with some shame how I mocked people who said that Dragon and Dungeon were dead.

Now I am looking at what's online and wondering if maybe those folks were right. :\

 

[WhatGravitas]

Considering that this is a period when 4e is being worked on furiously, I would have that that they would have hired more people to pick up the slack. At least they could have hired an extra computer techie type to handle the online mags and do things like making sure the online magazines have a TOC that can be updated.

What I don't understand (and that's my biggest beef with it): Why do they have such a sputtering, slow start? I mean, it's not like they only know of the DI for 2-3 month, they knew of the roll-out of the license for quite from the beginning, and the discussion about the non-extension must have been at some point in the past - and considering how long WE knew about the demise of the print magazines, it's not like they haven't knew about the pressure beforehand.

I mean, they could've started working on that in... let's say May, polished it up and then, because of the difficulties, started the online mags in November, presenting a polished PDF. Heck, they could've hired Paizo or another company on a short-term contract or something like that to do the first issue in PDF (after all, all magazines are also done in PDF).

Or put the resources of the preview books into the DI. Because the preview books are a single purchase only worth about two month of DI. If they'd put these resources into a good start and only get half of the preview book purchases in the DI, then they'd be receiving the same amount of money after four month.

Cheers, LT.

 

[Vascant]

To be fair, with 4E on the horizon, I imagine that everything is someone's "extra duty."

Now, maybe that means they should've held off on taking back the magazines--but if they had, then they wouldn't have had the chance to get the bugs ironed out by the 4E launch. I dunno; there are arguments to make either way. I'm glad I wasn't the one who had to make the decision.

Just have two words, "First Impression"

All I can say is for anyone who used to collect the issues (I have every issue ever released), they have created a perfect time to break from tradition (for the consumer).

 

[Drkfathr1]

This really doesn't give me any confidence in the Digital Initiative at all.

So, let me get this straight...they have ONE DEV handling Dungeon and Dragon right now? ONE?

I know more than that are writing the articles and all, and that they're quite busy with 4E, but they really can't hire more than ONE person to handle the uploading and managing of what should be a premiere product? Even if it is free, and basically just a preview?

Like others have said, you only get one chance to make a first impresssion. Especially when so much of your business plan for 4E involves online content/services.

 

[Wisdom Penalty]

Let's look at the Good Points:

1) Overseas subscribers get issues immediately.

2) Digital tabletop folks have an easier time prepping adventures for projection.

3) For Dungeon, they apparently are using the same stable of authors as was used at Paizo (Logue has written for Paizo, Smalley has, Vaughn has, etc.)

4) They're feeling their way ahead (as indicated in Chris Thomasson's quote below) but allowing us to get what we do get for free.

Our focus in the coming months will be to find these speed bumps, squish 'em flat, and figure these things out. We've always viewed this time between the announcement at Gen Con and the launch of 4th Edition as a period of transition for the magazines. We're learning what we can and can't do with a digital magazine...

5) You used to only have Dungeon and Dragon mags, now you have them and you gained Pathfinder.



The sky ain't falling.


W.P.

 

[MerricB]

My impressions:

Dungeon #151... fantastic. Getting a 3.5e conversion of the *entire* of Lost Caverns plus extra stuff? Wow. (Consider that the conversion of Maure Castle, a lesser adventure, got such plaudits for Paizo, and it had the stupidest maps ever)

Dragon #360... welcome to the suckiness that is Dragon magazine. This is not new. Paizo spent a lot of time putting out sucky issues. Their attempt to brand it as a "player's-only" magazine was an abysmal failure, and although it crawled from those depths with its latter issues, it was still very hit and miss. The series such as "Demonicon" and "Core Beliefs" had their followers, but let's face it: the role Dragon magazine once had as "new rules" and "advice" has been taken over by the official rulebooks.

 

[Bagpuss]

Let's look at the Good Points:

5) You used to only have Dungeon and Dragon mags, now you have them and you gained Pathfinder.

Assuming you have an unlimited budget, but yes you have more choice. I have the choice not to pay for either in the end.

Oh and there was never any praise for Manure Castle from me, what a waste of space that issue was.

 

[Zaukrie]

My thoughts, for what they are worth:

Content:
Too intermittent in coming out. One of the great things about the mags was calling home and asking the wife if they were there yet. It was the fulfillment of the anticipation that was fun to some degree. When you have no idea when/how often articles will come out, that is lost.

Too little. There just didn't seem to be that much content.

Not good enough. Some of it is just rebranded web enhancements that we used to receive for free, not as part of Dragon or Dungeon. The Devil article was wooooooefully lacking roleplaying information and was mostly just long stat blocks. Boring.

The delve maps in Dungeon were at 1 inch = 10 feet. What the heck is that? They were rotated. They didn't indicate terrain or contents or creature locations. They were utterly useless. I couldn't be more frustrated and annoyed with this than I am.

Few if any links to other sources of information, despite the fact this on line.

Marketing (this is all MBA 101 stuff):
Wow, they could not have underwhelmed me more with the job they did living up to the hype. This is a first impression, and it is not leaving a good taste in most of our mouths.

See the comment on timing of articles and expectation management.

Missed the timelines on the compliations. This makes us all think about all the other technology promises they have failed to deliver on, bad, bad stuff from a marketing perspective.

They needed to handle the announcement with Paizo, much, much better at the cancellation time. They vastly underestimated the impact of this announcement.

Quit promising things will be better in the future. Fix something, anything, and keep it fixed. Maybe it is links to better maps, maybe it is having the ToC accurate and linked well, but do something well and point it out.

Layout/Other:
Zipped pdf files, really?

Delve not linked back to original description - what is the point of on line content if you don't actually use the technology?

I'll be money that the pdfs don't use any of the available pdf technology, like layers and other things - they'll just be electronic copies of what would have been hard copies.

Links were often not accurate or not available on the main pages, even when the articles were available. Seriously, this has been a problem for several years - fix it already.

The comment that they are busy with other stuff - I get that, I really get that. But if DDI are going to be part of your core business now, then hire some staff to support it on a full time basis, don't make it someone's night job.

Mapmaker indicated he'd supply an unlabeled map for the map of mystery (I think it was that map). I bet he's done that already. Where is it?

I could go on and on, but that's probably enough for today.

 

[Echohawk]

Let's look at the Good Points:
1) Overseas subscribers get issues immediately.
2) Digital tabletop folks have an easier time prepping adventures for projection.
3) For Dungeon, they apparently are using the same stable of authors as was used at Paizo (Logue has written for Paizo, Smalley has, Vaughn has, etc.)
4) They're feeling their way ahead (as indicated in Chris Thomasson's quote below) but allowing us to get what we do get for free.
5) You used to only have Dungeon and Dragon mags, now you have them and you gained Pathfinder.

6) The animated beholder interview!

 

[Shade]

Dragon #360... welcome to the suckiness that is Dragon magazine. This is not new. Paizo spent a lot of time putting out sucky issues. Their attempt to brand it as a "player's-only" magazine was an abysmal failure, and although it crawled from those depths with its latter issues, it was still very hit and miss. The series such as "Demonicon" and "Core Beliefs" had their followers, but let's face it: the role Dragon magazine once had as "new rules" and "advice" has been taken over by the official rulebooks.

Wow, I couldn't disagree more.

While I'll agree that the "player's only" magazine was a bad, bad idea (and this was pre-Erik Mona, IIRC). However, some of the best and most innovative stuff came from Dragon, many of which later line the pages of those rulebooks. The latter-era rulebooks mostly paled in comparison to Dragon's content, unless they were clearly inspired by it (Fiendish Codices, for example).

I'd continue to subscribe to Dragon up until the day it went 4e if it lived up to the standards it was running at near the end.